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welcome to the skeptic zone

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the podcast from australia for science

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and reason

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number 654

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for the 25th of april 2021

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richard saunders here with you from

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sydney australia

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and today the 25th of april is known as

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anzac day here in australia

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and i guess in new zealand and it's uh

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it's our memorial day it's a day for

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the veterans coming up on this week's

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show we have an interview with mick west

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mick west from metabunk who has been

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investigating the latest

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the latest and greatest ufo sighting

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well a video that was produced

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a couple of years ago and has been in

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and

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using air quotes leaked to the world

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of uh some mysterious flying

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pyramids at night over a naval ship

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in the pacific what a mystery

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not anyway at the top of the show we

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have mick west to tell us all about this

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latest

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ufo oh there's a term you don't hear

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much anymore

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ufo following that it's the newsletter

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from australian skeptics

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see what's caught the skeptical eye of

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skeptical tim mendem this week

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following that on a far more serious

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note i talked to my friend abhijit

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chunder from new delhi india

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about the latest situation with covert

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19 in that country and

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it's it's grim it's not a good situation

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at all

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and abhijit will tell us about some of

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the claims of various

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alternative cures in india

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then the round off the show we dive once

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more into the trove archives

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this week we're going to be looking at

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references in the australian press over

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the decades too

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poltergeist poltergeist and ufos a bit

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of an old-fashioned skeptic zone episode

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this week

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but now it's time for me to not run

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downstairs it's time for me to finish

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this show off

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and prepare to be uncle richard

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at the birthday party of my niece who

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turned seven

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a room full of seven-year-olds who want

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me to do

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magic tricks and origami hmm

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i think that sounds like a lot of fun

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who knows there might be

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marshmallows marshmallows that's always

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good marshmallows

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ice cream and and bubbly water

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like lemonade well i think about all

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that i hope you enjoy

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[Music]

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and joining me now on the line all the

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way from sacramento in california

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is the author mick west hello mick

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hello richard good to be on again yeah

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it's been a while since you've been on

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the skeptic zone and i say the author of

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course i have here right in my hand

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escaping the rabbit hole a guide to

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helping friends family and loved ones

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how to debunk

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conspiracy theories using facts logic

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and respect

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now that book came out what two years

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ago something like that

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yes over two years ago maybe three years

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ago yeah so quite a while ago

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uh kind of before all the stuff went

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down with the storming of the capital

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and whatnot so

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oh right yeah yeah there's this elements

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of it that probably could be updated a

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little bit

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but i think a lot of it is still pretty

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relevant interestingly there's not much

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about ufos in the book oh right because

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it talks about 911 and

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the chemtrails contrails all that sort

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of stuff but

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no not much about ufos huh yeah i wasn't

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really into

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uh ufos so much back then i think i kind

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of got more and more interested in the

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last few years as a

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a bunch of cases came up that i got

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interested in uh analyzing the video of

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uh well no it uh it was almost like a

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fringe topic for me back then but now

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it's uh

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very interesting who knows maybe there's

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a resurgence in ufos because

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the reason i've contacted you is oh last

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week the week before the video came to

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my attention of these

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so-called pyramid ufos uh filmed by

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a sailor someone in the navy and

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it's sort of gone a bit viral of lots of

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news agencies saying

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pentagon confirms ufo it's leaked here

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it is

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and i had a look at it and my very

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first thought of looking at this video

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and i'll link to this in the show notes

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was oh it's out of focus but i didn't

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really have time to do much more

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investigation until i saw your video

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again which will be linked to

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on the uh on the show notes which

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clearly shows

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what's really going on but just for

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those viewers who haven't seen this

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whole

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affair if you could give us an overview

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that would be great

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yeah the video is shot in night vision

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so it looks green like a typical green

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you see in the movies when soldiers are

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using the night vision goggles

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and night vision is just image

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amplification so it's just making things

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brighter

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it's not it's not really the kind of

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infrared uh type thermal camera it's

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just

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as well so the

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this this sailor apparently is looking

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through his night vision monocular

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and it starts out you can see he's

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looking at some stars in a distance and

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then he pans the camera around

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and you see this little flashing light

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appear and he kind of zooms in on this

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flashing light and you can see that

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uh it looks like it's triangular shape

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and you see it continues to flash and

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then it just kind of moves along a bit

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as he tries to zoom in

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and it moves off the screen and this was

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presented as being

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a pyramid-shaped uh ufo

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not just a triangular one but an actual

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pyramid shaped as if people could

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discern some kind of pyramid shape from

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this

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but there's a couple of interesting

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things to notice when you look at the

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video and

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the one of the first things you notice

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is that it's flashing

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and the rate at which is flashing and

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the pattern with which it's flashing

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it's very very reminiscent

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of a plane and i kind of looked into

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timing the flashes and seeing how long

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it was between each flash

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and it seems like the two overlapping

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patterns which kind of match a 737

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very common airplane and the type of

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airplane that would have been in the air

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at that time

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because we actually have a location of

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the ship that they claim that they were

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on

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uh that the video was was from and that

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was actually right underneath the

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incoming

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path of air traffic going to los angeles

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area airport to long beach into lax

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so there would have been planes in the

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sky overhead and if he had his night

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vision goggles

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and looked up in the sky at that time he

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would have seen them

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so it makes perfect sense that it would

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be a plane

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absolutely yeah and and when you look at

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it again with that in mind and you see

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the flashing you see well

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that's what what planes do but

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why is it then that the video that's

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been released

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and people have gone crazy over why are

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they shaped

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like pyramids or giant triangles in the

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sky

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well it looks to me like it's a thing

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called boki

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uh which is a japanese word and it

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basically means uh

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the the quality of the out of focus

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parts of

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an image and when you look at a point

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light source such as a star for example

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or a

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light on a plane that's very far away

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the bokeh

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turns into the shape of whatever the

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aperture of the camera is

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now lots of cameras will have uh

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hexagonal apertures so you'll see these

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hexagonal bokehs or octagonal or

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octagonal right

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and but sometimes people will do things

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like they will cut out little heart

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shapes and put it on the front of the

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the camera just to create a different

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shape

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and some cameras actually have a

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triangular aperture

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uh the the aperture is inside the lens

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and it's what basically

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constricts the amount of light that gets

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through to the back and you can have it

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wide open to have more light and you can

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have it

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uh smaller to have less light which

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gives you better focus if there's enough

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light

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so if they had the aperture within the

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camera are just a little bit closed it

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two other available that it passes

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towards the end of the video and those

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lights are not actually moving

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and those lights are actually stars and

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they

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form the exact same triangle shape that

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the plane forms

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yeah and what's marvelous about

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the video that you produced and is up on

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youtube is that it takes each of these

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um points of interest very carefully and

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examines them and shows you exactly how

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the aperture is working why it looks

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like a triangle

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points it up to the sky you get exactly

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the same effect and it's one of the rare

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cases where the

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explanation is so in my mind so

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convincing and so

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obvious and so easy to understand

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um but let me play you now a short clip

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of

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video more than anything else was

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was jeremy corbell came on australian

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television

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and said the following this is a truly

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global story

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what separates this footage compared to

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other ufo footage you might see is that

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the us

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navy photographed and filmed these

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pyramid-shaped

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ufos and trans-medium vehicles

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and i obtained as a journalist i

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obtained and released

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some of this historic footage with my

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mentoring journalism george knapp

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and it says now as you said been

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directly confirmed by the pentagon

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so that is significant in and of itself

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how quickly they confirmed

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that these reports are contained within

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their educational

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uh briefings for for individuals in the

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military

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so that was jeremy corbell on australian

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tv

285
00:10:36,230 --> 00:10:35,440
and i mean if you were to uh listen to

286
00:10:37,990 --> 00:10:36,240
what he's

287
00:10:39,590 --> 00:10:38,000
saying it's like it's almost like he's

288
00:10:41,590 --> 00:10:39,600
the one bringing this

289
00:10:44,069 --> 00:10:41,600
secret information to the world but i

290
00:10:46,389 --> 00:10:44,079
think you know jeremy

291
00:10:48,550 --> 00:10:46,399
yeah i've uh i've kind of tangled with

292
00:10:49,269 --> 00:10:48,560
jeremy a few times because he has very

293
00:10:51,430 --> 00:10:49,279
uh

294
00:10:53,910 --> 00:10:51,440
what i would characterize as optimistic

295
00:10:54,870 --> 00:10:53,920
views uh when it comes to these various

296
00:10:56,710 --> 00:10:54,880
uh

297
00:10:58,230 --> 00:10:56,720
ufo videos that i've been investigating

298
00:11:00,150 --> 00:10:58,240
over the last few years

299
00:11:01,990 --> 00:11:00,160
specifically the ones from the u.s navy

300
00:11:03,430 --> 00:11:02,000
which now includes this one

301
00:11:05,350 --> 00:11:03,440
uh there were three other ones that came

302
00:11:08,069 --> 00:11:05,360
out a couple of years ago

303
00:11:09,670 --> 00:11:08,079
and uh i analyzed those in depth and

304
00:11:12,630 --> 00:11:09,680
kind of figured out what they were but

305
00:11:13,990 --> 00:11:12,640
jeremy kind of disagrees with me quite

306
00:11:17,190 --> 00:11:14,000
vehemently and tries to get

307
00:11:18,870 --> 00:11:17,200
experts on his show to uh to to explain

308
00:11:20,310 --> 00:11:18,880
why i'm wrong but i keep kind of pushing

309
00:11:21,269 --> 00:11:20,320
back on that and because i don't think

310
00:11:23,110 --> 00:11:21,279
i'm wrong

311
00:11:24,949 --> 00:11:23,120
but when it comes to this one you know

312
00:11:27,190 --> 00:11:24,959
he's obviously he's

313
00:11:28,870 --> 00:11:27,200
he's thinking that uh because he's got

314
00:11:31,910 --> 00:11:28,880
something that's an official

315
00:11:33,509 --> 00:11:31,920
video then it's now an official ufo

316
00:11:35,750 --> 00:11:33,519
video he can release it and

317
00:11:37,110 --> 00:11:35,760
uh you know this proves ufos exists and

318
00:11:39,030 --> 00:11:37,120
it's this amazing thing

319
00:11:40,470 --> 00:11:39,040
and it's a flying triangle it's a flying

320
00:11:42,069 --> 00:11:40,480
pyramid when we don't have anything that

321
00:11:44,550 --> 00:11:42,079
looks like a flying pyramid so

322
00:11:45,190 --> 00:11:44,560
that in itself is amazing but of course

323
00:11:46,470 --> 00:11:45,200
uh

324
00:11:48,230 --> 00:11:46,480
there's two things there he didn't

325
00:11:48,949 --> 00:11:48,240
really realize that he's not actually a

326
00:11:51,670 --> 00:11:48,959
flying

327
00:11:54,870 --> 00:11:51,680
uh pirate it's actually almost certainly

328
00:11:57,829 --> 00:11:54,880
a plane at around 30 to 35 000 feet just

329
00:12:01,190 --> 00:11:57,839
simply flying towards lax

330
00:12:02,550 --> 00:12:01,200
and he's really mischaracterizing what

331
00:12:04,629 --> 00:12:02,560
it means to be official

332
00:12:06,550 --> 00:12:04,639
it's been confirmed that it's an

333
00:12:10,069 --> 00:12:06,560
official video which

334
00:12:12,629 --> 00:12:10,079
only means that it was taken by a sailor

335
00:12:13,990 --> 00:12:12,639
on a navy vessel and that's really all

336
00:12:16,790 --> 00:12:14,000
that it means

337
00:12:19,030 --> 00:12:16,800
uh it does it does they do say it is

338
00:12:19,829 --> 00:12:19,040
included in the unidentified aerial

339
00:12:23,430 --> 00:12:19,839
phenomenons

340
00:12:25,030 --> 00:12:23,440
task force i think consideration

341
00:12:27,350 --> 00:12:25,040
but it doesn't mean that it's actually

342
00:12:27,990 --> 00:12:27,360
unidentified because what the task force

343
00:12:31,269 --> 00:12:28,000
looks at

344
00:12:34,389 --> 00:12:31,279
is phenomenon that were

345
00:12:36,550 --> 00:12:34,399
i unidentified at the time so what they

346
00:12:37,110 --> 00:12:36,560
want to do is look at examples of things

347
00:12:39,509 --> 00:12:37,120
where

348
00:12:40,870 --> 00:12:39,519
a sailor for example misidentified

349
00:12:42,550 --> 00:12:40,880
something originally

350
00:12:45,030 --> 00:12:42,560
and tried to figure out what went wrong

351
00:12:47,910 --> 00:12:45,040
what are the what is the procedural

352
00:12:49,110 --> 00:12:47,920
mix-up that caused this to happen and if

353
00:12:50,629 --> 00:12:49,120
you look at this video

354
00:12:52,550 --> 00:12:50,639
it's really not a very professional

355
00:12:55,030 --> 00:12:52,560
video you can figure out the

356
00:12:55,990 --> 00:12:55,040
the actual resolution of it uh by

357
00:12:57,750 --> 00:12:56,000
looking at some of the

358
00:12:59,829 --> 00:12:57,760
the pixels within the image because it's

359
00:13:02,069 --> 00:12:59,839
been scaled up and it's really really

360
00:13:03,030 --> 00:13:02,079
small it's something like 160 pixels

361
00:13:05,430 --> 00:13:03,040
high which is

362
00:13:07,110 --> 00:13:05,440
a minute size of video and it's been

363
00:13:08,550 --> 00:13:07,120
scaled up and it's all blurry

364
00:13:10,150 --> 00:13:08,560
uh which is why you can't really see

365
00:13:11,430 --> 00:13:10,160
very much detail when the things first

366
00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:11,440
arrive you can't even tell that the

367
00:13:17,590 --> 00:13:13,760
triangles when they first come in

368
00:13:18,629 --> 00:13:17,600
um and it's it's really not a very good

369
00:13:20,949 --> 00:13:18,639
video

370
00:13:22,629 --> 00:13:20,959
and he's yet he's still presented it as

371
00:13:26,230 --> 00:13:22,639
being the best

372
00:13:27,750 --> 00:13:26,240
uh ufo video ever and he's said this uh

373
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:27,760
a number of times and he's been quoted

374
00:13:31,350 --> 00:13:29,600
as saying that which is

375
00:13:32,949 --> 00:13:31,360
it's quite funny really that he he would

376
00:13:35,190 --> 00:13:32,959
say that uh i mean

377
00:13:37,509 --> 00:13:35,200
it would be great for him for everyone

378
00:13:39,030 --> 00:13:37,519
if we had an amazing uh ufo video of

379
00:13:39,670 --> 00:13:39,040
something something new and amazing but

380
00:13:44,230 --> 00:13:39,680
this

381
00:13:46,069 --> 00:13:44,240
his point of view i guess he gets

382
00:13:48,069 --> 00:13:46,079
notoriety he gets a go on australian

383
00:13:50,310 --> 00:13:48,079
television must feel great to have

384
00:13:51,990 --> 00:13:50,320
media from the world contacting him he's

385
00:13:55,590 --> 00:13:52,000
very important for a very short

386
00:13:57,030 --> 00:13:55,600
amount of time but i i kind of figure

387
00:14:00,470 --> 00:13:57,040
after seeing your

388
00:14:02,470 --> 00:14:00,480
your video which you know very very

389
00:14:04,150 --> 00:14:02,480
painstakingly takes it apart and you can

390
00:14:05,829 --> 00:14:04,160
clearly see what's going on

391
00:14:07,269 --> 00:14:05,839
i'm tempted to think he's going to have

392
00:14:09,269 --> 00:14:07,279
egg on his face and and

393
00:14:10,629 --> 00:14:09,279
and come out and say oh well i was

394
00:14:12,870 --> 00:14:10,639
clearly wrong but

395
00:14:13,829 --> 00:14:12,880
honestly i don't expect that to happen

396
00:14:16,870 --> 00:14:13,839
yeah well he

397
00:14:18,550 --> 00:14:16,880
he it's kind of um he kind of

398
00:14:20,069 --> 00:14:18,560
moves moves on very quickly to the next

399
00:14:23,189 --> 00:14:20,079
thing there was a

400
00:14:26,069 --> 00:14:23,199
a case before with a ufo where the ufo

401
00:14:28,550 --> 00:14:26,079
looked like he was surrounded by a glow

402
00:14:31,350 --> 00:14:28,560
and uh he was saying on the joe rogan

403
00:14:34,949 --> 00:14:31,360
experience the podcast that

404
00:14:36,949 --> 00:14:34,959
this glow was a cold glow that

405
00:14:38,790 --> 00:14:36,959
indicated some kind of negative energy

406
00:14:40,230 --> 00:14:38,800
field or something some kind of exotic

407
00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:40,240
propulsion thing

408
00:14:44,550 --> 00:14:42,720
and then i quite convincingly explained

409
00:14:46,629 --> 00:14:44,560
that it wasn't and then a year later

410
00:14:48,790 --> 00:14:46,639
he's back on the joe rogan podcast

411
00:14:50,710 --> 00:14:48,800
and joe asks him about this thing and he

412
00:14:51,670 --> 00:14:50,720
says oh no it's just an artifact of the

413
00:14:53,829 --> 00:14:51,680
camera

414
00:14:55,910 --> 00:14:53,839
so he's not a person who's completely

415
00:14:56,710 --> 00:14:55,920
immune to reason he he will he will see

416
00:14:58,550 --> 00:14:56,720
things uh

417
00:15:00,069 --> 00:14:58,560
uh you know for for what they are

418
00:15:01,430 --> 00:15:00,079
eventually and i think that's what's

419
00:15:03,030 --> 00:15:01,440
going to happen here he will he will

420
00:15:04,949 --> 00:15:03,040
realize that it is in fact

421
00:15:06,629 --> 00:15:04,959
uh just triangle bulky and it is you

422
00:15:08,790 --> 00:15:06,639
know almost certainly a plane

423
00:15:09,990 --> 00:15:08,800
and he'll just refocus on the other

424
00:15:11,670 --> 00:15:10,000
things that he has and

425
00:15:13,590 --> 00:15:11,680
and the fact that this was some kind of

426
00:15:15,269 --> 00:15:13,600
official release that they got and he'll

427
00:15:17,590 --> 00:15:15,279
just move on

428
00:15:19,509 --> 00:15:17,600
i'll be interested to see if for example

429
00:15:21,590 --> 00:15:19,519
the sunrise program from which the clip

430
00:15:23,509 --> 00:15:21,600
i played i've actually written to them

431
00:15:26,230 --> 00:15:23,519
and sent them a link to your video and

432
00:15:28,230 --> 00:15:26,240
said look it's great fun to have a ufo

433
00:15:30,230 --> 00:15:28,240
guy on and a really scary interesting

434
00:15:31,110 --> 00:15:30,240
spooky story or mysterious or whatever

435
00:15:34,949 --> 00:15:31,120
it is

436
00:15:37,670 --> 00:15:34,959
you should tell your

437
00:15:39,030 --> 00:15:37,680
your audience have another segment we'll

438
00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:39,040
see if that happens at all

439
00:15:42,949 --> 00:15:41,040
but just going through the comments

440
00:15:45,189 --> 00:15:42,959
under the the video

441
00:15:46,470 --> 00:15:45,199
on youtube the the sunrise video for

442
00:15:49,550 --> 00:15:46,480
example there are

443
00:15:50,790 --> 00:15:49,560
three at the at the time of recording

444
00:15:54,230 --> 00:15:50,800
3529

445
00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:54,240
comments and there are some

446
00:15:57,430 --> 00:15:55,920
i would say skeptical people in there

447
00:15:57,829 --> 00:15:57,440
there's some making fun of it but there

448
00:16:00,550 --> 00:15:57,839
are an

449
00:16:01,749 --> 00:16:00,560
awful lot of people awful lot of people

450
00:16:04,150 --> 00:16:01,759
siding with the fact that

451
00:16:05,749 --> 00:16:04,160
yeah see i told you the ufos are coming

452
00:16:07,509 --> 00:16:05,759
we've known it for years this is clear

453
00:16:08,949 --> 00:16:07,519
the pentagon have admitted it which is

454
00:16:09,670 --> 00:16:08,959
another thing about this whole story i

455
00:16:13,110 --> 00:16:09,680
mean they're

456
00:16:14,150 --> 00:16:13,120
they're the the focus is the the framing

457
00:16:17,269 --> 00:16:14,160
of i should say

458
00:16:17,590 --> 00:16:17,279
is that this is an official admission by

459
00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:17,600
the

460
00:16:23,269 --> 00:16:21,120
us government that ufos and for ufos

461
00:16:25,350 --> 00:16:23,279
that means in their in their world that

462
00:16:27,430 --> 00:16:25,360
means spaceships from another planet

463
00:16:28,949 --> 00:16:27,440
are real and that's going to be that's

464
00:16:29,990 --> 00:16:28,959
going to be very difficult to overcome

465
00:16:31,829 --> 00:16:30,000
because

466
00:16:33,110 --> 00:16:31,839
i don't think too much of the media will

467
00:16:35,990 --> 00:16:33,120
be very interested

468
00:16:36,870 --> 00:16:36,000
in showing the um uh the takedown of

469
00:16:39,110 --> 00:16:36,880
this

470
00:16:40,069 --> 00:16:39,120
no i i kind of agree with you and part

471
00:16:43,189 --> 00:16:40,079
of the problem is

472
00:16:43,990 --> 00:16:43,199
that the explanation is actually more

473
00:16:46,389 --> 00:16:44,000
complicated

474
00:16:48,389 --> 00:16:46,399
seeming and more difficult to understand

475
00:16:49,430 --> 00:16:48,399
than just the simple idea that it's

476
00:16:51,670 --> 00:16:49,440
aliens flying

477
00:16:53,590 --> 00:16:51,680
in a pyramid yeah yeah even though one

478
00:16:56,230 --> 00:16:53,600
well that's ridiculous

479
00:16:57,670 --> 00:16:56,240
yeah you say that but but honestly after

480
00:17:00,069 --> 00:16:57,680
watching your video

481
00:17:02,550 --> 00:17:00,079
i think you do an excellent job in

482
00:17:04,549 --> 00:17:02,560
explaining something which is

483
00:17:06,390 --> 00:17:04,559
it's not exactly rocket science but when

484
00:17:06,870 --> 00:17:06,400
you after watching your video it's just

485
00:17:09,429 --> 00:17:06,880
so

486
00:17:10,230 --> 00:17:09,439
clear and obvious and you say oh that's

487
00:17:11,909 --> 00:17:10,240
how it works

488
00:17:14,870 --> 00:17:11,919
so that's what i i really appreciated

489
00:17:16,630 --> 00:17:14,880
about the the work you put into that

490
00:17:18,549 --> 00:17:16,640
thank you i did make an effort to make

491
00:17:20,230 --> 00:17:18,559
it accessible but uh you know what the

492
00:17:21,110 --> 00:17:20,240
media is like they like their their

493
00:17:23,189 --> 00:17:21,120
sound bites

494
00:17:24,549 --> 00:17:23,199
and yeah if it takes a few minutes to

495
00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:24,559
explain something

496
00:17:27,909 --> 00:17:26,640
there's not very many media outlets

497
00:17:29,590 --> 00:17:27,919
especially when we're talking about you

498
00:17:31,669 --> 00:17:29,600
know breakfast tv

499
00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:31,679
yeah that would actually get into the

500
00:17:35,270 --> 00:17:33,520
nitty-gritty of it and and talk about

501
00:17:36,710 --> 00:17:35,280
what is bulky and what is a flashing

502
00:17:38,310 --> 00:17:36,720
pattern and you know what are these

503
00:17:40,789 --> 00:17:38,320
stars what is night vision

504
00:17:41,909 --> 00:17:40,799
there's several aspects to it yeah even

505
00:17:44,789 --> 00:17:41,919
even the fact that

506
00:17:46,710 --> 00:17:44,799
uh the the the nature of the filming of

507
00:17:48,390 --> 00:17:46,720
the video was probably done with someone

508
00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:48,400
holding up an iphone to the back of a

509
00:17:51,750 --> 00:17:50,480
night vision binocular

510
00:17:53,590 --> 00:17:51,760
you know these are those like little

511
00:17:54,789 --> 00:17:53,600
details which are all important to

512
00:17:58,150 --> 00:17:54,799
discuss

513
00:17:59,430 --> 00:17:58,160
uh but unfortunately uh the media likes

514
00:18:02,870 --> 00:17:59,440
to just have a whoa

515
00:18:04,789 --> 00:18:02,880
alien story rather than uh let's explain

516
00:18:07,270 --> 00:18:04,799
how cameras work story

517
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:07,280
uh i agree i i think so that's why i

518
00:18:10,710 --> 00:18:08,160
will be i hope

519
00:18:12,789 --> 00:18:10,720
i'm hopeful but i will be surprised if

520
00:18:14,150 --> 00:18:12,799
this tv show for example or others

521
00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:14,160
decide to follow up

522
00:18:17,190 --> 00:18:15,600
and tell their audience you know that

523
00:18:18,549 --> 00:18:17,200
story we had the other week about the

524
00:18:21,669 --> 00:18:18,559
ufos buzzing the

525
00:18:23,669 --> 00:18:21,679
the naval ship well it turns out so

526
00:18:25,110 --> 00:18:23,679
folks yes look please have a look at the

527
00:18:26,830 --> 00:18:25,120
video i will post the links

528
00:18:29,350 --> 00:18:26,840
in this week's show notes it's a

529
00:18:29,830 --> 00:18:29,360
wonderful video from a scientific point

530
00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:29,840
of view

531
00:18:34,230 --> 00:18:32,400
and it's not a debunking video i mean

532
00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:34,240
this is a very strange term

533
00:18:37,350 --> 00:18:36,000
in the skeptical world some people love

534
00:18:39,110 --> 00:18:37,360
it some people hate it but i

535
00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:39,120
prefer to think of it as an

536
00:18:41,990 --> 00:18:41,520
investigation into what was going on

537
00:18:46,150 --> 00:18:42,000
rather

538
00:18:46,870 --> 00:18:46,160
than the cartoon idea people have a

539
00:18:49,110 --> 00:18:46,880
skeptics

540
00:18:50,789 --> 00:18:49,120
is that we set out to from the beginning

541
00:18:52,710 --> 00:18:50,799
to debunk you didn't do that you just

542
00:18:54,630 --> 00:18:52,720
set out to find out what was going on

543
00:18:55,990 --> 00:18:54,640
exactly yeah i didn't know what what

544
00:18:57,350 --> 00:18:56,000
this this light actually was

545
00:18:59,190 --> 00:18:57,360
i mean it was possible that it could

546
00:19:00,710 --> 00:18:59,200
have been a drone uh it was possible it

547
00:19:01,990 --> 00:19:00,720
could have been some kind of flying

548
00:19:04,470 --> 00:19:02,000
triangle like

549
00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:04,480
a kite or a balloon that's shaped like a

550
00:19:07,430 --> 00:19:06,000
triangle or something like that

551
00:19:09,270 --> 00:19:07,440
and it's even possible that it might

552
00:19:10,950 --> 00:19:09,280
have been none of the above and

553
00:19:13,270 --> 00:19:10,960
it could perhaps only be an alien

554
00:19:14,870 --> 00:19:13,280
spaceship but we've got to look at the

555
00:19:17,430 --> 00:19:14,880
the other explanations before we make

556
00:19:19,669 --> 00:19:17,440
the jump to aliens and once you

557
00:19:21,590 --> 00:19:19,679
look at the possibility that it might be

558
00:19:24,230 --> 00:19:21,600
a high-flying plane and the

559
00:19:25,750 --> 00:19:24,240
camera a bit out of focus everything

560
00:19:27,430 --> 00:19:25,760
just falls into place and everything

561
00:19:28,630 --> 00:19:27,440
matches so that's almost certainly what

562
00:19:32,390 --> 00:19:28,640
it is

563
00:19:34,390 --> 00:19:32,400
disguised as a pyramid

564
00:19:36,230 --> 00:19:34,400
and trying to mimic the flashing pattern

565
00:19:37,990 --> 00:19:36,240
of a 737

566
00:19:40,150 --> 00:19:38,000
yes that's always a possibility which

567
00:19:41,909 --> 00:19:40,160
you've never never entirely discounts

568
00:19:42,789 --> 00:19:41,919
but we could all be living in a dream or

569
00:19:47,029 --> 00:19:42,799
we could

570
00:19:49,190 --> 00:19:47,039
and not realize it

571
00:19:50,870 --> 00:19:49,200
i think some of us are quite frankly now

572
00:19:53,350 --> 00:19:50,880
mick where can people find out more

573
00:19:55,990 --> 00:19:53,360
about uh your investigations and

574
00:19:57,029 --> 00:19:56,000
of course your uh interesting podcast

575
00:19:59,350 --> 00:19:57,039
about uh

576
00:20:00,950 --> 00:19:59,360
well escaping the rabbit hole oh that's

577
00:20:03,190 --> 00:20:00,960
a bunch of things i've got my

578
00:20:04,070 --> 00:20:03,200
my twitter feed where i do most of my

579
00:20:06,950 --> 00:20:04,080
initial

580
00:20:08,950 --> 00:20:06,960
on the minute uh ufo debunking uh my

581
00:20:12,070 --> 00:20:08,960
website metabunk.org

582
00:20:14,230 --> 00:20:12,080
has the more detailed look at things and

583
00:20:15,270 --> 00:20:14,240
then my podcast is tales from the rabbit

584
00:20:16,710 --> 00:20:15,280
hole

585
00:20:18,789 --> 00:20:16,720
which you can find wherever good

586
00:20:21,830 --> 00:20:18,799
podcasts are given away for free

587
00:20:22,950 --> 00:20:21,840
and that's about it

588
00:20:24,950 --> 00:20:22,960
excellent well mick again

589
00:20:28,470 --> 00:20:24,960
congratulations on a very

590
00:20:31,590 --> 00:20:28,480
concise short and uh informative

591
00:20:32,789 --> 00:20:31,600
video it leaves us in no doubt what was

592
00:20:34,710 --> 00:20:32,799
really going on

593
00:20:37,029 --> 00:20:34,720
and i look forward to catching up with

594
00:20:38,310 --> 00:20:37,039
you again soon maybe when the next ufo

595
00:20:41,430 --> 00:20:38,320
buzzes us

596
00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:41,440
yes i'm sure there will be a next ufo

597
00:20:45,510 --> 00:20:43,440
yeah i'm sure there will be but for now

598
00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:45,520
mick west thank you very much

599
00:20:57,100 --> 00:20:49,370
thank you

600
00:20:57,110 --> 00:21:05,430
[Music]

601
00:21:08,870 --> 00:21:07,590
i'm mick west in my podcast tales from

602
00:21:10,310 --> 00:21:08,880
the rabbit hole i have extended

603
00:21:12,149 --> 00:21:10,320
conversations with people who've been

604
00:21:13,669 --> 00:21:12,159
involved in conspiracy culture

605
00:21:15,110 --> 00:21:13,679
i do this for a couple of reasons

606
00:21:15,990 --> 00:21:15,120
firstly because it's really interesting

607
00:21:17,590 --> 00:21:16,000
these people have great

608
00:21:19,270 --> 00:21:17,600
stories about how they fell down the

609
00:21:20,149 --> 00:21:19,280
conspiracy theory rabbit hole what they

610
00:21:21,830 --> 00:21:20,159
did down there

611
00:21:23,110 --> 00:21:21,840
and what it was that helped them out

612
00:21:24,870 --> 00:21:23,120
sometimes i also talk to people who

613
00:21:26,390 --> 00:21:24,880
investigate conspiracy theories and they

614
00:21:27,350 --> 00:21:26,400
have equally fascinating stories from

615
00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:27,360
the other side

616
00:21:30,630 --> 00:21:29,200
secondly i want to understand how best

617
00:21:32,230 --> 00:21:30,640
to prevent the spread of conspiracy

618
00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:32,240
theorists and misinformation which is an

619
00:21:35,830 --> 00:21:33,840
increasing problem in a time when

620
00:21:37,270 --> 00:21:35,840
alternative media is exploding

621
00:21:39,029 --> 00:21:37,280
the best way to do this is to

622
00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:39,039
communicate effectively with the people

623
00:21:41,590 --> 00:21:39,760
involved

624
00:21:43,270 --> 00:21:41,600
and the best way to do that is with a

625
00:21:46,630 --> 00:21:43,280
nice long chat

626
00:21:56,830 --> 00:21:46,640
check it out tales from the rabbit hole

627
00:22:12,070 --> 00:21:58,500
tftrh.com

628
00:22:16,110 --> 00:22:13,510
let's take a look at the australian

629
00:22:18,470 --> 00:22:16,120
skeptics newsletter newsletter number

630
00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:18,480
121

631
00:22:25,110 --> 00:22:22,080
hi all it says as the

632
00:22:28,070 --> 00:22:25,120
stop start hesitation

633
00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:28,080
gung-ho whoops try again roll out of

634
00:22:33,270 --> 00:22:30,320
covert vaccines continues

635
00:22:35,669 --> 00:22:33,280
the old med and quack cure brigade

636
00:22:39,029 --> 00:22:35,679
willing and ready to enter the breach

637
00:22:44,390 --> 00:22:39,039
not good thank heavens for prince philip

638
00:22:46,789 --> 00:22:44,400
for some comedy relief even postmortem

639
00:22:48,549 --> 00:22:46,799
and don't forget it's flu season and

640
00:22:52,310 --> 00:22:48,559
even though covert is

641
00:22:55,830 --> 00:22:52,320
top of mind it is still an issue

642
00:22:59,190 --> 00:22:55,840
april the 26th to the 30th is influenza

643
00:23:02,070 --> 00:22:59,200
action week with free flu shots

644
00:23:02,789 --> 00:23:02,080
on april 30th in sydney melbourne and

645
00:23:06,230 --> 00:23:02,799
perth

646
00:23:08,549 --> 00:23:06,240
town halls and in fact

647
00:23:09,350 --> 00:23:08,559
since i've read that i've booked myself

648
00:23:12,070 --> 00:23:09,360
a flu shot

649
00:23:13,430 --> 00:23:12,080
in uh here in sydney now let's see what

650
00:23:17,750 --> 00:23:13,440
tim mendom

651
00:23:20,470 --> 00:23:17,760
has sent us this week desperate families

652
00:23:20,789 --> 00:23:20,480
pray to snake oil treatments for autism

653
00:23:24,630 --> 00:23:20,799
and

654
00:23:26,390 --> 00:23:24,640
prey is spelt p r e y a parliamentary

655
00:23:27,190 --> 00:23:26,400
inquiry into autism has heard

656
00:23:30,070 --> 00:23:27,200
submissions

657
00:23:30,870 --> 00:23:30,080
about how debunked treatments are being

658
00:23:33,830 --> 00:23:30,880
peddled

659
00:23:35,590 --> 00:23:33,840
as cures for autism and that's certainly

660
00:23:38,630 --> 00:23:35,600
nothing new sadly

661
00:23:39,909 --> 00:23:38,640
cook island's epson salt cure referred

662
00:23:43,110 --> 00:23:39,919
to coroner

663
00:23:45,269 --> 00:23:43,120
promotion of shonky cures i.e epsom salt

664
00:23:47,110 --> 00:23:45,279
solutions is causing problems in the

665
00:23:50,070 --> 00:23:47,120
cook islands

666
00:23:51,269 --> 00:23:50,080
media's hypocrisy undermines critical

667
00:23:54,230 --> 00:23:51,279
thinking

668
00:23:56,789 --> 00:23:54,240
mainstream news outlets have gone after

669
00:23:59,510 --> 00:23:56,799
covert 19 conspiracy theorists

670
00:24:01,029 --> 00:23:59,520
with a passion but when it comes to

671
00:24:03,750 --> 00:24:01,039
equally important science

672
00:24:06,070 --> 00:24:03,760
topics they have no problem ignoring

673
00:24:07,269 --> 00:24:06,080
evidence and promoting conspiratorial

674
00:24:10,549 --> 00:24:07,279
nonsense

675
00:24:13,430 --> 00:24:10,559
this blatant hypocrisy causes confusion

676
00:24:14,149 --> 00:24:13,440
and fuels the public's skepticism for

677
00:24:17,110 --> 00:24:14,159
science

678
00:24:19,029 --> 00:24:17,120
more broadly that's an interesting

679
00:24:21,990 --> 00:24:19,039
article and fairly short

680
00:24:23,029 --> 00:24:22,000
says tim and don't forget each of these

681
00:24:25,669 --> 00:24:23,039
little news

682
00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:25,679
items i'm reading out is accompanied by

683
00:24:30,789 --> 00:24:27,760
a link so you can read the

684
00:24:33,029 --> 00:24:30,799
article in full

685
00:24:34,390 --> 00:24:33,039
uk health authority promotes acupuncture

686
00:24:36,549 --> 00:24:34,400
for chronic pain

687
00:24:38,630 --> 00:24:36,559
the uk's national institute for health

688
00:24:40,789 --> 00:24:38,640
and care excellence

689
00:24:42,149 --> 00:24:40,799
an executive non-departmental public

690
00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:42,159
body of the department of health in

691
00:24:45,110 --> 00:24:42,880
england

692
00:24:46,630 --> 00:24:45,120
which publishes guidelines in health

693
00:24:49,669 --> 00:24:46,640
technologies and treatments

694
00:24:52,470 --> 00:24:49,679
is recommending acupuncture as part of a

695
00:24:54,470 --> 00:24:52,480
regime for dealing with chronic pain

696
00:24:55,750 --> 00:24:54,480
the justification for acupuncture's

697
00:24:58,590 --> 00:24:55,760
inclusion

698
00:25:00,390 --> 00:24:58,600
you'll have to scroll down to section

699
00:25:03,190 --> 00:25:00,400
1.2.5 and click

700
00:25:04,710 --> 00:25:03,200
on a link to see this makes for

701
00:25:07,430 --> 00:25:04,720
interesting reading

702
00:25:09,029 --> 00:25:07,440
edsart ernst noted campaigner against

703
00:25:11,590 --> 00:25:09,039
pseudoscience and medicine

704
00:25:13,350 --> 00:25:11,600
has republished this justification and

705
00:25:16,710 --> 00:25:13,360
called for comments

706
00:25:20,390 --> 00:25:16,720
the rise of pseudoscientific islamic

707
00:25:22,070 --> 00:25:20,400
cures in iran mixing influential

708
00:25:24,710 --> 00:25:22,080
fundamentalist religious

709
00:25:25,510 --> 00:25:24,720
leaders and medicine can be fraught with

710
00:25:27,190 --> 00:25:25,520
problems

711
00:25:29,269 --> 00:25:27,200
especially when it comes to offering

712
00:25:31,029 --> 00:25:29,279
alternative cures when established

713
00:25:34,230 --> 00:25:31,039
treatments are not available

714
00:25:37,590 --> 00:25:34,240
in iran various cures for

715
00:25:41,269 --> 00:25:37,600
covert include a cotton ball soaked

716
00:25:45,029 --> 00:25:41,279
in violet oil inserted into your

717
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:45,039
anus or drinking hot

718
00:25:49,110 --> 00:25:47,090
camel we

719
00:25:51,909 --> 00:25:49,120
[Music]

720
00:25:53,669 --> 00:25:51,919
and watch out for those covered vaccines

721
00:25:57,269 --> 00:25:53,679
that will turn you gay

722
00:25:58,549 --> 00:25:57,279
an interesting article yeah another link

723
00:26:00,549 --> 00:25:58,559
here is for the

724
00:26:01,830 --> 00:26:00,559
interactive chart on biblical

725
00:26:04,789 --> 00:26:01,840
contradictions

726
00:26:05,590 --> 00:26:04,799
covers the old and new testaments very

727
00:26:08,470 --> 00:26:05,600
interactive

728
00:26:08,950 --> 00:26:08,480
very large tim goes on to say that the

729
00:26:11,110 --> 00:26:08,960
march

730
00:26:12,710 --> 00:26:11,120
2021 issue of the skeptic the journal

731
00:26:14,710 --> 00:26:12,720
from australian skeptics

732
00:26:16,630 --> 00:26:14,720
is out with a major feature on various

733
00:26:18,950 --> 00:26:16,640
mind control techniques

734
00:26:20,070 --> 00:26:18,960
and the pseudoscience behind them with a

735
00:26:24,870 --> 00:26:20,080
link so you too

736
00:26:27,190 --> 00:26:24,880
can subscribe to the magazine

737
00:26:28,630 --> 00:26:27,200
and another link to an excerpt from the

738
00:26:30,870 --> 00:26:28,640
magazine which is all about the great

739
00:26:34,789 --> 00:26:30,880
australian psychic prediction project

740
00:26:37,269 --> 00:26:34,799
by adrian hill you can also contact

741
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:37,279
tim mendenham if you have an idea for a

742
00:26:39,590 --> 00:26:38,050
story

743
00:26:42,390 --> 00:26:39,600
[Music]

744
00:26:44,230 --> 00:26:42,400
we have a round up of events coming over

745
00:26:45,990 --> 00:26:44,240
the next month or so

746
00:26:48,470 --> 00:26:46,000
including perth sydney canberra

747
00:26:49,909 --> 00:26:48,480
queensland victoria gold coast and

748
00:26:51,510 --> 00:26:49,919
adelaide

749
00:26:53,590 --> 00:26:51,520
items of interest here at the bottom of

750
00:26:56,950 --> 00:26:53,600
the page world's five

751
00:27:00,549 --> 00:26:56,960
most haunted places hmm mainly islands

752
00:27:02,710 --> 00:27:00,559
including a dull island in mexico

753
00:27:05,990 --> 00:27:02,720
but honestly including the whole of the

754
00:27:08,390 --> 00:27:06,000
isle of wight is a bit of a stretch

755
00:27:09,909 --> 00:27:08,400
prince philip interests in aliens and

756
00:27:12,789 --> 00:27:09,919
ufos

757
00:27:13,110 --> 00:27:12,799
now it can be told then again the royals

758
00:27:15,830 --> 00:27:13,120
are

759
00:27:20,549 --> 00:27:15,840
into homeopathy so why should we expect

760
00:27:22,470 --> 00:27:20,559
any different

761
00:27:24,149 --> 00:27:22,480
and that was the australian skeptic's

762
00:27:33,029 --> 00:27:24,159
newsletter

763
00:27:36,290 --> 00:27:33,039
every other week just go to

764
00:27:47,590 --> 00:27:36,300
dot www.skeptics.com dot a u and sign up

765
00:27:51,750 --> 00:27:50,310
hi my name's joe thornley and i'd like

766
00:27:54,149 --> 00:27:51,760
you to join my co

767
00:27:55,590 --> 00:27:54,159
um i'd like you to listen to my podcast

768
00:27:57,909 --> 00:27:55,600
about cults

769
00:27:59,909 --> 00:27:57,919
called zealot it's available pretty much

770
00:28:02,710 --> 00:27:59,919
anywhere you find podcasts with further

771
00:28:04,870 --> 00:28:02,720
reading on the zealot facebook page

772
00:28:06,710 --> 00:28:04,880
each episode a guest joins me to talk

773
00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:06,720
about a specific cult where we answer

774
00:28:13,590 --> 00:28:07,840
the big questions

775
00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:15,900
and does anyone think they're jesus

776
00:28:26,230 --> 00:28:23,990
pop over to my compound and have a

777
00:28:30,710 --> 00:28:26,240
listen i've just mixed up a fresh batch

778
00:28:44,389 --> 00:28:30,720
of kool-aid

779
00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:44,399
sell it

780
00:28:48,470 --> 00:28:46,240
and joining me now all the way from new

781
00:28:51,669 --> 00:28:48,480
delhi in india it's abhijit

782
00:28:52,389 --> 00:28:51,679
hello abhijit hello richard how are you

783
00:28:58,870 --> 00:28:52,399
doing

784
00:29:00,710 --> 00:28:58,880
vaccination shot which should be

785
00:29:03,510 --> 00:29:00,720
hopefully next month

786
00:29:05,269 --> 00:29:03,520
or then or the month after but i know

787
00:29:06,230 --> 00:29:05,279
because we're hearing about it on the

788
00:29:08,549 --> 00:29:06,240
news quite a lot

789
00:29:10,230 --> 00:29:08,559
india is not in the best situation in

790
00:29:12,230 --> 00:29:10,240
fact let me read to you

791
00:29:14,310 --> 00:29:12,240
a press report that's come here via

792
00:29:19,110 --> 00:29:14,320
news.com today you

793
00:29:22,870 --> 00:29:19,120
india reaches world record of 315

794
00:29:23,750 --> 00:29:22,880
000 daily covet 19 cases as oxygen

795
00:29:26,630 --> 00:29:23,760
supplies

796
00:29:27,350 --> 00:29:26,640
runs out this does not sound good and

797
00:29:29,029 --> 00:29:27,360
the pictures

798
00:29:30,630 --> 00:29:29,039
we are seeing on the news reports in the

799
00:29:33,830 --> 00:29:30,640
evening are very

800
00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:33,840
um very distressing uh so

801
00:29:37,029 --> 00:29:35,440
from and you're right in the middle of

802
00:29:40,149 --> 00:29:37,039
it how's it looking from

803
00:29:43,710 --> 00:29:40,159
where you are just as bad probably worse

804
00:29:47,029 --> 00:29:43,720
um uh yeah so we've actually uh hit

805
00:29:50,230 --> 00:29:47,039
332 000 in a wow

806
00:29:55,350 --> 00:29:50,240
you know in a day um we've hit just

807
00:29:58,870 --> 00:29:55,360
over 2.4 million active cases as

808
00:30:02,149 --> 00:29:58,880
of now as of yesterday actually so

809
00:30:05,830 --> 00:30:02,159
and the official report is that

810
00:30:09,430 --> 00:30:05,840
there have been 2 256

811
00:30:12,710 --> 00:30:09,440
deaths in a day on the 22nd of april

812
00:30:14,870 --> 00:30:12,720
in a day yeah but these are

813
00:30:15,750 --> 00:30:14,880
official numbers so like we spoke about

814
00:30:19,990 --> 00:30:15,760
last time

815
00:30:22,389 --> 00:30:20,000
yeah the official numbers are

816
00:30:23,750 --> 00:30:22,399
i wouldn't say conservative they're just

817
00:30:26,870 --> 00:30:23,760
wrong

818
00:30:30,630 --> 00:30:26,880
because for example there was uh

819
00:30:32,630 --> 00:30:30,640
it's they're less by orders of magnitude

820
00:30:34,149 --> 00:30:32,640
so there's this reporter called sanjeev

821
00:30:37,669 --> 00:30:34,159
gupta from bhopal

822
00:30:40,710 --> 00:30:37,679
in madhya pradesh and that city reported

823
00:30:43,350 --> 00:30:40,720
four deaths on that day on the

824
00:30:45,909 --> 00:30:43,360
particular day of the reporting

825
00:30:48,549 --> 00:30:45,919
but he was at the crematorium and there

826
00:30:50,230 --> 00:30:48,559
were dozens of funeral pyres which were

827
00:30:53,590 --> 00:30:50,240
burning in the crematorium

828
00:30:55,909 --> 00:30:53,600
and several more in the queue

829
00:30:57,029 --> 00:30:55,919
to come up there the crematoriums across

830
00:31:00,149 --> 00:30:57,039
the country

831
00:31:03,269 --> 00:31:00,159
have been flooded they have been

832
00:31:06,230 --> 00:31:03,279
running day and night and in

833
00:31:06,710 --> 00:31:06,240
lucknow which is in uttar pradesh which

834
00:31:11,110 --> 00:31:06,720
is

835
00:31:14,230 --> 00:31:11,120
just uh just east of where i am

836
00:31:16,149 --> 00:31:14,240
there were 100 funeral pyres burning on

837
00:31:19,590 --> 00:31:16,159
the 14th of april

838
00:31:22,870 --> 00:31:19,600
and that day the whole state

839
00:31:25,990 --> 00:31:22,880
reported just 85 deaths and this is just

840
00:31:26,549 --> 00:31:26,000
one the capital city of the state where

841
00:31:28,870 --> 00:31:26,559
there were

842
00:31:30,149 --> 00:31:28,880
a hundred funeral priors counted by a

843
00:31:33,029 --> 00:31:30,159
reporter

844
00:31:33,990 --> 00:31:33,039
when the whole state had reported 85

845
00:31:36,310 --> 00:31:34,000
deaths

846
00:31:38,549 --> 00:31:36,320
yeah yeah so it's it's it's just there's

847
00:31:42,630 --> 00:31:38,559
a problem with getting accurate reports

848
00:31:45,669 --> 00:31:42,640
obviously exactly it is and i have a

849
00:31:45,990 --> 00:31:45,679
maybe you know this i'm trying not to

850
00:31:48,630 --> 00:31:46,000
think

851
00:31:50,070 --> 00:31:48,640
like a conspiracy theorists but they're

852
00:31:53,590 --> 00:31:50,080
not helping

853
00:31:56,149 --> 00:31:53,600
yeah yeah it's really hard for me to

854
00:31:56,630 --> 00:31:56,159
to you know think more rationally about

855
00:31:59,190 --> 00:31:56,640
this

856
00:32:00,789 --> 00:31:59,200
it's just it's it's crazy it's

857
00:32:03,590 --> 00:32:00,799
heartbreaking

858
00:32:05,269 --> 00:32:03,600
and yeah and we haven't even reached the

859
00:32:07,269 --> 00:32:05,279
peak the peak has been predicted to be

860
00:32:10,310 --> 00:32:07,279
around mid may between the 10th

861
00:32:12,630 --> 00:32:10,320
and the 15th well so uh

862
00:32:14,149 --> 00:32:12,640
it's just it's crazy we've got multiple

863
00:32:17,350 --> 00:32:14,159
strains running around

864
00:32:19,350 --> 00:32:17,360
we've got double sometimes even triple

865
00:32:21,590 --> 00:32:19,360
mutations that have been reported

866
00:32:23,509 --> 00:32:21,600
where you have three different strains

867
00:32:26,310 --> 00:32:23,519
which might have converged

868
00:32:28,149 --> 00:32:26,320
to form an even deadlier strain which

869
00:32:29,750 --> 00:32:28,159
could even be avoiding all the

870
00:32:31,350 --> 00:32:29,760
antibodies that you had last time so the

871
00:32:34,630 --> 00:32:31,360
chance of reinfection

872
00:32:36,149 --> 00:32:34,640
has gone up quite rapidly it's it's it's

873
00:32:39,269 --> 00:32:36,159
not a very good situation at all

874
00:32:41,190 --> 00:32:39,279
it's a nightmare and yeah during the

875
00:32:43,990 --> 00:32:41,200
course of 2020 when we were

876
00:32:44,389 --> 00:32:44,000
discussing this situation in india i

877
00:32:46,950 --> 00:32:44,399
guess

878
00:32:49,029 --> 00:32:46,960
the main thrust of our conversation was

879
00:32:52,470 --> 00:32:49,039
the utter

880
00:32:54,789 --> 00:32:52,480
lack of success when it comes to homeop

881
00:32:56,389 --> 00:32:54,799
homeopathy the homeopathic treatments

882
00:32:57,990 --> 00:32:56,399
because that was sparked

883
00:33:00,389 --> 00:32:58,000
by a group here in australia called

884
00:33:02,950 --> 00:33:00,399
homeopathy plus which were posting

885
00:33:04,230 --> 00:33:02,960
all eyes to india india will show us the

886
00:33:06,630 --> 00:33:04,240
way homeopathy is

887
00:33:08,470 --> 00:33:06,640
you know going on the great benefits of

888
00:33:09,509 --> 00:33:08,480
the the to the people of india using

889
00:33:11,830 --> 00:33:09,519
homeopathy

890
00:33:13,430 --> 00:33:11,840
but i think you're telling me now on our

891
00:33:15,190 --> 00:33:13,440
brief conversation before we started

892
00:33:16,389 --> 00:33:15,200
that it's not so much homeopathy but

893
00:33:19,350 --> 00:33:16,399
there's certainly

894
00:33:20,310 --> 00:33:19,360
lots of other quackery going on there oh

895
00:33:22,149 --> 00:33:20,320
yes absolutely

896
00:33:23,990 --> 00:33:22,159
one of them of course which is the most

897
00:33:27,269 --> 00:33:24,000
popular i think not just in india

898
00:33:29,190 --> 00:33:27,279
but in other places is rem de severe and

899
00:33:30,549 --> 00:33:29,200
the more recent more thorough studies

900
00:33:32,870 --> 00:33:30,559
about rem desservation

901
00:33:33,990 --> 00:33:32,880
shows that it has absolutely no effect

902
00:33:36,710 --> 00:33:34,000
on

903
00:33:37,909 --> 00:33:36,720
your risk of being hospitalized or even

904
00:33:41,509 --> 00:33:37,919
your risk of death

905
00:33:42,710 --> 00:33:41,519
so and it is the so much so that people

906
00:33:45,110 --> 00:33:42,720
have

907
00:33:46,070 --> 00:33:45,120
it's gone into the black market and a

908
00:33:49,430 --> 00:33:46,080
vial which

909
00:33:52,310 --> 00:33:49,440
cost maybe 1800 rupees

910
00:33:53,669 --> 00:33:52,320
but as stipulated by the government is

911
00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:53,679
selling for 20

912
00:33:59,830 --> 00:33:57,200
000 rupees oh oh

913
00:34:00,470 --> 00:33:59,840
so 10 times more expensive yeah or a

914
00:34:04,389 --> 00:34:00,480
medicine

915
00:34:06,149 --> 00:34:04,399
that doesn't work wow well that's that's

916
00:34:08,470 --> 00:34:06,159
we can we can make an analogy to

917
00:34:10,230 --> 00:34:08,480
homeopathy homeopathy is more expensive

918
00:34:12,790 --> 00:34:10,240
than liquid gold i think

919
00:34:13,270 --> 00:34:12,800
when you consider it's just when you or

920
00:34:16,550 --> 00:34:13,280
printer

921
00:34:19,829 --> 00:34:16,560
expensive

922
00:34:21,750 --> 00:34:19,839
but um but yes the markup on on on just

923
00:34:22,470 --> 00:34:21,760
water and sugar from the homeopaths is

924
00:34:25,030 --> 00:34:22,480
that is

925
00:34:26,149 --> 00:34:25,040
is is criminal to be blunt it's quite

926
00:34:28,149 --> 00:34:26,159
outrageous

927
00:34:30,149 --> 00:34:28,159
uh one of the the things that's

928
00:34:30,869 --> 00:34:30,159
happening here now is australia has now

929
00:34:33,270 --> 00:34:30,879
limited the

930
00:34:34,310 --> 00:34:33,280
the number of flights quite a lot coming

931
00:34:37,669 --> 00:34:34,320
from india and

932
00:34:39,349 --> 00:34:37,679
the daily reports just today say that um

933
00:34:41,349 --> 00:34:39,359
there was a certain flight from new

934
00:34:42,069 --> 00:34:41,359
delhi i think it was maybe mumbai that

935
00:34:45,109 --> 00:34:42,079
had 20

936
00:34:49,109 --> 00:34:45,119
20 cases on it or it's just

937
00:34:52,389 --> 00:34:49,119
a terrible situation yeah and yikes so

938
00:34:54,550 --> 00:34:52,399
i i mean we don't know how it's going to

939
00:34:55,750 --> 00:34:54,560
play out exactly but the bottom line is

940
00:34:59,109 --> 00:34:55,760
of course

941
00:35:01,430 --> 00:34:59,119
from what we're concerned with is things

942
00:35:04,470 --> 00:35:01,440
like homeopathy and ayurvedic is

943
00:35:05,349 --> 00:35:04,480
is simply just no match for uh covert

944
00:35:08,310 --> 00:35:05,359
whatsoever

945
00:35:09,829 --> 00:35:08,320
absolutely none and now and like as if

946
00:35:10,470 --> 00:35:09,839
as if nobody's learned from the last

947
00:35:13,510 --> 00:35:10,480
year

948
00:35:14,950 --> 00:35:13,520
there are new uh remedies which are

949
00:35:16,069 --> 00:35:14,960
making their rounds especially on

950
00:35:19,990 --> 00:35:16,079
whatsapp

951
00:35:23,109 --> 00:35:20,000
one of them is inhaling a little pouch

952
00:35:26,870 --> 00:35:23,119
of camphor mixed with

953
00:35:30,550 --> 00:35:26,880
a few other aromatic indian spices

954
00:35:32,870 --> 00:35:30,560
um one is called ajwain and

955
00:35:34,230 --> 00:35:32,880
you know a few others which have been

956
00:35:34,710 --> 00:35:34,240
making their rounds and people have

957
00:35:38,390 --> 00:35:34,720
gotten

958
00:35:41,109 --> 00:35:38,400
fanatical about it except that camphor

959
00:35:41,910 --> 00:35:41,119
is it can be toxic if you inhale too

960
00:35:43,190 --> 00:35:41,920
much of it

961
00:35:45,910 --> 00:35:43,200
i mean of course it's in things like

962
00:35:48,710 --> 00:35:45,920
vicks vaporub and stuff like that right

963
00:35:49,109 --> 00:35:48,720
just it evaporates easily but people are

964
00:35:51,190 --> 00:35:49,119
taking

965
00:35:53,510 --> 00:35:51,200
lumps of camphor and holding it to their

966
00:35:58,069 --> 00:35:53,520
noses because they think

967
00:36:00,150 --> 00:35:58,079
that it creates oxygen in the body

968
00:36:01,270 --> 00:36:00,160
and the only thing that creates oxygen

969
00:36:05,190 --> 00:36:01,280
is plants

970
00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:05,200
and well a factory which creates oxygen

971
00:36:07,670 --> 00:36:05,520
but

972
00:36:10,390 --> 00:36:07,680
you know and of course there is a huge

973
00:36:14,310 --> 00:36:10,400
oxygen crisis in india right now because

974
00:36:17,750 --> 00:36:14,320
there are uh we've run short of oxygen

975
00:36:19,190 --> 00:36:17,760
um there are tens of thousands of people

976
00:36:20,710 --> 00:36:19,200
who are going to be dying

977
00:36:22,230 --> 00:36:20,720
because they're not being able to get

978
00:36:23,109 --> 00:36:22,240
oxygen hospitals have been turning

979
00:36:26,310 --> 00:36:23,119
people

980
00:36:29,109 --> 00:36:26,320
away because they have run out of oxygen

981
00:36:30,870 --> 00:36:29,119
and it's just it's heartbreaking to see

982
00:36:33,670 --> 00:36:30,880
this and politicians

983
00:36:35,670 --> 00:36:33,680
have actually been stopping tankers of

984
00:36:38,950 --> 00:36:35,680
oxygen from entering cities

985
00:36:42,150 --> 00:36:38,960
before now by just going up to them

986
00:36:44,230 --> 00:36:42,160
decorating them doing prayers

987
00:36:45,589 --> 00:36:44,240
in front of them while keeping them from

988
00:36:47,750 --> 00:36:45,599
getting to the hospitals where they need

989
00:36:49,750 --> 00:36:47,760
to go

990
00:36:51,349 --> 00:36:49,760
it's it's really tough to hear all this

991
00:36:53,109 --> 00:36:51,359
and maybe

992
00:36:54,630 --> 00:36:53,119
folks listening around the world you too

993
00:36:57,190 --> 00:36:54,640
have seen the images on the on your

994
00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:57,200
nightly news report of the

995
00:37:02,230 --> 00:36:59,920
deeply deeply distressing pictures and

996
00:37:03,910 --> 00:37:02,240
images coming out of india of

997
00:37:06,150 --> 00:37:03,920
people turning up at hospitals and being

998
00:37:09,270 --> 00:37:06,160
turned away and and um

999
00:37:09,910 --> 00:37:09,280
it's it's an awful situation ah deary me

1000
00:37:16,630 --> 00:37:09,920
sorry to

1001
00:37:17,030 --> 00:37:16,640
heavy story but it does tie in with the

1002
00:37:19,430 --> 00:37:17,040
you know

1003
00:37:20,550 --> 00:37:19,440
there's a lot of bad thinking going on

1004
00:37:22,550 --> 00:37:20,560
with with people

1005
00:37:23,589 --> 00:37:22,560
i guess you know in a way we can we can

1006
00:37:25,030 --> 00:37:23,599
have to be very

1007
00:37:26,950 --> 00:37:25,040
understanding because there are a lot of

1008
00:37:28,069 --> 00:37:26,960
people in a very bad situation

1009
00:37:30,150 --> 00:37:28,079
they're going to be desperate aren't

1010
00:37:32,790 --> 00:37:30,160
they for for anything they think that

1011
00:37:33,190 --> 00:37:32,800
could help absolutely that's why people

1012
00:37:36,230 --> 00:37:33,200
i mean

1013
00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:36,240
things like oxygen tanks things like

1014
00:37:40,150 --> 00:37:38,640
oxygen concentrators ventilators have

1015
00:37:41,750 --> 00:37:40,160
all gone into the black market and

1016
00:37:43,430 --> 00:37:41,760
people are buying them for tens of

1017
00:37:46,470 --> 00:37:43,440
thousands of rupees

1018
00:37:47,190 --> 00:37:46,480
more than they are valued at so it's

1019
00:37:49,109 --> 00:37:47,200
just it's

1020
00:37:50,790 --> 00:37:49,119
people are scared people are desperate

1021
00:37:53,430 --> 00:37:50,800
people are huffing on

1022
00:37:55,270 --> 00:37:53,440
things that they see on you know on

1023
00:37:56,790 --> 00:37:55,280
whatsapp including there was one another

1024
00:38:00,150 --> 00:37:56,800
message that was making its rounds

1025
00:38:01,589 --> 00:38:00,160
um in my family groups where

1026
00:38:03,430 --> 00:38:01,599
they have been of course you know

1027
00:38:06,150 --> 00:38:03,440
promoting the whole alkaline

1028
00:38:06,950 --> 00:38:06,160
and acid diets where they have actually

1029
00:38:11,910 --> 00:38:06,960
said

1030
00:38:16,630 --> 00:38:11,920
that an avocado has a ph of 15.6

1031
00:38:19,670 --> 00:38:16,640
and watercress has a ph of 22.7

1032
00:38:22,150 --> 00:38:19,680
and uh which is uh i i

1033
00:38:22,950 --> 00:38:22,160
as far as last time i checked the ph

1034
00:38:27,030 --> 00:38:22,960
scale was

1035
00:38:28,470 --> 00:38:27,040
only till 14. so oh boy

1036
00:38:30,150 --> 00:38:28,480
and because they're saying that the ph

1037
00:38:33,829 --> 00:38:30,160
of the coronavirus ranges from

1038
00:38:36,470 --> 00:38:33,839
5.5 to 8.5 that's a magical virus

1039
00:38:38,230 --> 00:38:36,480
and to eliminate the virus you need to

1040
00:38:39,589 --> 00:38:38,240
eat more alkaline foods and of course

1041
00:38:41,109 --> 00:38:39,599
there's a lot of inhalation and stuff

1042
00:38:43,030 --> 00:38:41,119
like that and that is just going

1043
00:38:44,390 --> 00:38:43,040
everywhere and this is just the tip of

1044
00:38:46,310 --> 00:38:44,400
the iceberg these are the only

1045
00:38:48,069 --> 00:38:46,320
things that i've come across and i've

1046
00:38:48,630 --> 00:38:48,079
become such a pain in the ass of most of

1047
00:38:50,710 --> 00:38:48,640
my

1048
00:38:52,150 --> 00:38:50,720
friends and family who send these things

1049
00:38:53,109 --> 00:38:52,160
that these don't send it to me anymore

1050
00:38:55,510 --> 00:38:53,119
they just

1051
00:38:57,270 --> 00:38:55,520
so i'm i'm left in the dark because i'm

1052
00:38:58,950 --> 00:38:57,280
like don't share this stuff it's

1053
00:39:01,510 --> 00:38:58,960
horrible

1054
00:39:02,470 --> 00:39:01,520
but you know so i've become a bit of an

1055
00:39:04,310 --> 00:39:02,480
outcast in that

1056
00:39:05,589 --> 00:39:04,320
that factor so i've asked my father i

1057
00:39:07,670 --> 00:39:05,599
was like whoever sends

1058
00:39:08,870 --> 00:39:07,680
you stuff just send it straight to me

1059
00:39:09,589 --> 00:39:08,880
all right that way i have a little bit

1060
00:39:12,790 --> 00:39:09,599
of a

1061
00:39:15,030 --> 00:39:12,800
well yeah

1062
00:39:17,109 --> 00:39:15,040
it's it's a tough situation all around

1063
00:39:18,550 --> 00:39:17,119
and again we can have sympathy

1064
00:39:20,630 --> 00:39:18,560
and understanding for a lot of people

1065
00:39:21,990 --> 00:39:20,640
who who don't know they simply think

1066
00:39:22,790 --> 00:39:22,000
that this might work or they've been

1067
00:39:24,230 --> 00:39:22,800
told

1068
00:39:25,829 --> 00:39:24,240
that this might work and they're just

1069
00:39:28,069 --> 00:39:25,839
desperate so

1070
00:39:29,270 --> 00:39:28,079
yeah not a good situation anyway abhijit

1071
00:39:31,910 --> 00:39:29,280
where can people

1072
00:39:33,109 --> 00:39:31,920
find out more about uh what you do and

1073
00:39:36,270 --> 00:39:33,119
your podcast

1074
00:39:37,430 --> 00:39:36,280
well i am you can find me on

1075
00:39:39,109 --> 00:39:37,440
berationable.com

1076
00:39:41,109 --> 00:39:39,119
my podcast is called the rationable

1077
00:39:42,630 --> 00:39:41,119
podcast

1078
00:39:44,390 --> 00:39:42,640
unfortunately things have been a little

1079
00:39:46,150 --> 00:39:44,400
slow because i've been kind of bogged

1080
00:39:46,630 --> 00:39:46,160
down with work but you can definitely go

1081
00:39:48,710 --> 00:39:46,640
with

1082
00:39:50,950 --> 00:39:48,720
there's a lot of good information still

1083
00:39:53,589 --> 00:39:50,960
up there and i'm going to be publishing

1084
00:39:55,109 --> 00:39:53,599
a few fresh podcast episodes over the

1085
00:39:56,790 --> 00:39:55,119
next couple of weeks

1086
00:39:58,310 --> 00:39:56,800
and with a lot of good information

1087
00:40:00,069 --> 00:39:58,320
especially there's a doctor i

1088
00:40:00,870 --> 00:40:00,079
interviewed recently called dr hariak

1089
00:40:04,150 --> 00:40:00,880
spartak

1090
00:40:05,910 --> 00:40:04,160
who has talked extensively about the uh

1091
00:40:08,470 --> 00:40:05,920
the vaccines the kova 19 vaccines

1092
00:40:09,670 --> 00:40:08,480
especially the ones available in india

1093
00:40:11,510 --> 00:40:09,680
because there's a lot of vaccine

1094
00:40:13,510 --> 00:40:11,520
hesitancy going on still

1095
00:40:14,950 --> 00:40:13,520
so just to kind of clear the air

1096
00:40:18,230 --> 00:40:14,960
understand which ones which

1097
00:40:20,150 --> 00:40:18,240
uh what they do how they'll help you and

1098
00:40:22,069 --> 00:40:20,160
kind of does away with all the fears of

1099
00:40:24,150 --> 00:40:22,079
side effects etc so that one is coming

1100
00:40:24,790 --> 00:40:24,160
up in just a couple of days um all right

1101
00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:24,800
but yeah

1102
00:40:27,990 --> 00:40:26,400
please subscribe to the podcast i'd be

1103
00:40:29,990 --> 00:40:28,000
i'd love to have you there and send me

1104
00:40:31,750 --> 00:40:30,000
whatever feedback you might have

1105
00:40:33,349 --> 00:40:31,760
okay abigail once again thank you very

1106
00:40:37,030 --> 00:40:33,359
much and we'll chat again

1107
00:40:39,109 --> 00:40:37,040
before long with the maybe maybe towards

1108
00:40:39,990 --> 00:40:39,119
the end of may or june or something like

1109
00:40:41,990 --> 00:40:40,000
that we can

1110
00:40:43,750 --> 00:40:42,000
have a better understanding about this

1111
00:40:45,589 --> 00:40:43,760
um this terrible uh

1112
00:40:47,829 --> 00:40:45,599
second or third wave that's happening in

1113
00:40:50,309 --> 00:40:47,839
india this is the second wave

1114
00:40:51,589 --> 00:40:50,319
second bad one we've already gone way

1115
00:40:53,030 --> 00:40:51,599
past what the worst

1116
00:40:55,109 --> 00:40:53,040
last year had to throw at us but

1117
00:40:57,430 --> 00:40:55,119
hopefully we'll be over the hump

1118
00:40:58,790 --> 00:40:57,440
by the end of next month so yeah we'll

1119
00:41:01,430 --> 00:40:58,800
catch up there okay

1120
00:41:03,030 --> 00:41:01,440
well stay safe and once again abhijit

1121
00:41:08,290 --> 00:41:03,040
thank you very much

1122
00:41:08,300 --> 00:41:15,190
[Music]

1123
00:41:19,270 --> 00:41:17,910
hi there i'm abhijeet and i host the

1124
00:41:22,230 --> 00:41:19,280
rashford podcast

1125
00:41:23,750 --> 00:41:22,240
on berationable.com every couple of

1126
00:41:25,030 --> 00:41:23,760
weeks i science the hell out of

1127
00:41:27,589 --> 00:41:25,040
alternative medicines

1128
00:41:28,550 --> 00:41:27,599
health and nutrition fads social media

1129
00:41:31,829 --> 00:41:28,560
forwards

1130
00:41:34,230 --> 00:41:31,839
science news and lots more of course

1131
00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:34,240
you can find all of my articles podcast

1132
00:41:40,470 --> 00:41:34,880
episodes

1133
00:41:46,829 --> 00:41:40,480
and lots more on www.berationable.com

1134
00:41:46,839 --> 00:41:49,930
rationable

1135
00:41:49,940 --> 00:42:01,829
[Music]

1136
00:42:07,510 --> 00:42:03,910
now let's go once again into the pages

1137
00:42:09,190 --> 00:42:07,520
at trove trove.nla.gov.edu

1138
00:42:10,870 --> 00:42:09,200
the online resource from the australian

1139
00:42:11,750 --> 00:42:10,880
government and the national library of

1140
00:42:14,150 --> 00:42:11,760
australia

1141
00:42:15,270 --> 00:42:14,160
thousands upon thousands upon thousands

1142
00:42:18,550 --> 00:42:15,280
of digitized

1143
00:42:21,670 --> 00:42:18,560
articles newspapers journals periodicals

1144
00:42:25,820 --> 00:42:21,680
notebooks magazines and so on going back

1145
00:42:32,710 --> 00:42:29,430
[Music]

1146
00:42:35,829 --> 00:42:32,720
now we've looked into mornings before

1147
00:42:38,710 --> 00:42:35,839
haunted houses some months ago

1148
00:42:39,430 --> 00:42:38,720
but today i thought we'd look into a

1149
00:42:42,829 --> 00:42:39,440
specific

1150
00:42:46,230 --> 00:42:42,839
example of a haunting in this case

1151
00:42:52,950 --> 00:42:49,270
now the general the

1152
00:42:56,950 --> 00:42:52,960
general translation into english

1153
00:43:00,790 --> 00:42:56,960
is a playful ghost

1154
00:43:02,630 --> 00:43:00,800
it could be racketing or

1155
00:43:03,340 --> 00:43:02,640
a ghost making a racket or something

1156
00:43:04,390 --> 00:43:03,350
like that

1157
00:43:06,870 --> 00:43:04,400
[Music]

1158
00:43:09,030 --> 00:43:06,880
and upon researching poltergeist in

1159
00:43:10,710 --> 00:43:09,040
these pages i discover that the term has

1160
00:43:15,190 --> 00:43:10,720
been around for longer than i

1161
00:43:18,870 --> 00:43:15,200
thought in fact our first port of call

1162
00:43:24,829 --> 00:43:18,880
first item coming up comes from

1163
00:43:25,990 --> 00:43:24,839
queensland times dated the 16th of april

1164
00:43:30,630 --> 00:43:26,000
1927.

1165
00:43:38,710 --> 00:43:34,630
the romanian poltergeist unruly ghost

1166
00:43:40,550 --> 00:43:38,720
girl eleanor zugen who recently gave a

1167
00:43:43,670 --> 00:43:40,560
display of her supposed

1168
00:43:44,470 --> 00:43:43,680
remarkable powers in london has it is

1169
00:43:47,589 --> 00:43:44,480
asserted

1170
00:43:50,790 --> 00:43:47,599
been unmasked by a munich doctor

1171
00:43:53,109 --> 00:43:50,800
and a cundra acting in collaboration

1172
00:43:54,870 --> 00:43:53,119
the girl it may be recalled claimed to

1173
00:43:58,069 --> 00:43:54,880
be possessed by the devil

1174
00:43:58,390 --> 00:43:58,079
who it was stated was responsible for

1175
00:44:01,829 --> 00:43:58,400
the

1176
00:44:05,589 --> 00:44:01,839
marks of bites scratches welts

1177
00:44:09,109 --> 00:44:05,599
etc which appeared on the girl's skin

1178
00:44:13,190 --> 00:44:09,119
apparently through no human agency

1179
00:44:15,829 --> 00:44:13,200
dr hans rosenbush and the conundrum

1180
00:44:17,030 --> 00:44:15,839
here otto dill a german amateur

1181
00:44:19,910 --> 00:44:17,040
masculine

1182
00:44:21,030 --> 00:44:19,920
and incidentally that is uh like a stage

1183
00:44:23,829 --> 00:44:21,040
magician

1184
00:44:24,550 --> 00:44:23,839
of unusual powers an observation has

1185
00:44:27,430 --> 00:44:24,560
however

1186
00:44:28,630 --> 00:44:27,440
published a document proving without a

1187
00:44:31,990 --> 00:44:28,640
shadow of a doubt

1188
00:44:35,030 --> 00:44:32,000
that the polish countess zoe was ilko

1189
00:44:35,750 --> 00:44:35,040
in whose company the girl traveled was

1190
00:44:38,910 --> 00:44:35,760
the main

1191
00:44:42,870 --> 00:44:38,920
agent of the deception

1192
00:44:45,990 --> 00:44:42,880
conspirators the pair were in munich

1193
00:44:49,430 --> 00:44:46,000
where a film is being made of

1194
00:44:50,309 --> 00:44:49,440
eleanor's strange markings and the film

1195
00:44:52,470 --> 00:44:50,319
operator adds

1196
00:44:53,589 --> 00:44:52,480
as evidence that in the pauses the

1197
00:44:55,670 --> 00:44:53,599
countess

1198
00:44:57,109 --> 00:44:55,680
under the pretense of smoothing the

1199
00:45:00,150 --> 00:44:57,119
girl's hair

1200
00:45:02,550 --> 00:45:00,160
would skillfully scratch her cheek

1201
00:45:04,790 --> 00:45:02,560
or neck eleanor is one of those curious

1202
00:45:08,230 --> 00:45:04,800
human beings whose skin reacts

1203
00:45:11,430 --> 00:45:08,240
abnormally on an average

1204
00:45:14,150 --> 00:45:11,440
two to three minutes after being pinched

1205
00:45:14,870 --> 00:45:14,160
scratched or even poked according to the

1206
00:45:17,030 --> 00:45:14,880
document

1207
00:45:19,190 --> 00:45:17,040
mentioned while the girl was displaying

1208
00:45:23,109 --> 00:45:19,200
one mark either she

1209
00:45:26,870 --> 00:45:23,119
or the countess would adroitly manage to

1210
00:45:29,750 --> 00:45:26,880
injure the skin and so produce the next

1211
00:45:32,790 --> 00:45:29,760
often a handkerchief or a hand held

1212
00:45:35,910 --> 00:45:32,800
before the mouth to conceal a yawn

1213
00:45:38,309 --> 00:45:35,920
was used as a cloak often a flutter of

1214
00:45:42,069 --> 00:45:38,319
the countess's eyelids

1215
00:45:42,470 --> 00:45:42,079
would give directions so cleverly was

1216
00:45:45,589 --> 00:45:42,480
this

1217
00:45:48,710 --> 00:45:45,599
done that no complete evidence

1218
00:45:51,750 --> 00:45:48,720
was forthcoming till dr rosenbush

1219
00:45:55,030 --> 00:45:51,760
could get both to his own house at a

1220
00:45:58,069 --> 00:45:55,040
tea party on the ostensible grounds of

1221
00:46:00,550 --> 00:45:58,079
discussing the film in the success

1222
00:46:01,349 --> 00:46:00,560
of which the countess was financially

1223
00:46:04,710 --> 00:46:01,359
interested

1224
00:46:05,910 --> 00:46:04,720
at a sitting after tea which continued

1225
00:46:08,470 --> 00:46:05,920
for five hours

1226
00:46:09,430 --> 00:46:08,480
notes were taken by had dill

1227
00:46:12,829 --> 00:46:09,440
masquerading

1228
00:46:15,589 --> 00:46:12,839
as a harmless inquirer of the most

1229
00:46:16,790 --> 00:46:15,599
insignificant moments of the girl and

1230
00:46:19,109 --> 00:46:16,800
the countess

1231
00:46:20,790 --> 00:46:19,119
the absolute coincidence of touch and

1232
00:46:23,990 --> 00:46:20,800
the resultant mark

1233
00:46:24,630 --> 00:46:24,000
proves that there is no devil in the

1234
00:46:28,470 --> 00:46:24,640
case

1235
00:46:31,430 --> 00:46:28,480
but only very clever sleight of hand

1236
00:46:32,710 --> 00:46:31,440
the pair have now vanished from munich

1237
00:46:34,230 --> 00:46:32,720
eleanor zugen

1238
00:46:36,950 --> 00:46:34,240
came to london at the beginning of

1239
00:46:38,950 --> 00:46:36,960
october last and was examined on many

1240
00:46:43,109 --> 00:46:38,960
occasions in connection with her

1241
00:46:44,870 --> 00:46:43,119
supposed abnormal powers mr harry price

1242
00:46:46,150 --> 00:46:44,880
honorary director of the national

1243
00:46:48,630 --> 00:46:46,160
laboratory of

1244
00:46:49,349 --> 00:46:48,640
psychical research in a report on the

1245
00:46:51,910 --> 00:46:49,359
girl

1246
00:46:52,950 --> 00:46:51,920
wrote there is not the slightest doubt

1247
00:46:55,910 --> 00:46:52,960
that our careful

1248
00:46:56,790 --> 00:46:55,920
experiments made under ideal scientific

1249
00:46:59,190 --> 00:46:56,800
conditions

1250
00:47:00,150 --> 00:46:59,200
have proved that the stigmatic markings

1251
00:47:02,230 --> 00:47:00,160
appear

1252
00:47:03,190 --> 00:47:02,240
spontaneously on various parts of

1253
00:47:05,510 --> 00:47:03,200
eleanor's body

1254
00:47:06,870 --> 00:47:05,520
but she was not consciously responsible

1255
00:47:09,990 --> 00:47:06,880
for the production

1256
00:47:12,150 --> 00:47:10,000
of the marks and under test conditions

1257
00:47:14,150 --> 00:47:12,160
movement of physical objects without

1258
00:47:17,750 --> 00:47:14,160
contact took place

1259
00:47:19,829 --> 00:47:17,760
well there we are history repeats itself

1260
00:47:21,670 --> 00:47:19,839
decades later with the likes of james

1261
00:47:24,790 --> 00:47:21,680
randy and so forth

1262
00:47:26,390 --> 00:47:24,800
and it reminds me of the occasion when i

1263
00:47:28,150 --> 00:47:26,400
had a word to

1264
00:47:29,430 --> 00:47:28,160
as i've mentioned him before the late

1265
00:47:31,510 --> 00:47:29,440
simon turnbull

1266
00:47:33,990 --> 00:47:31,520
who was the uh the president of the

1267
00:47:37,829 --> 00:47:34,000
australian psychics association

1268
00:47:39,190 --> 00:47:37,839
i uh i was on a tv chat show with him

1269
00:47:41,270 --> 00:47:39,200
once

1270
00:47:43,430 --> 00:47:41,280
and during the course of the tv chat

1271
00:47:44,470 --> 00:47:43,440
show skeptics versus believers or

1272
00:47:47,589 --> 00:47:44,480
whatever

1273
00:47:50,150 --> 00:47:47,599
he was waxing lyrical of uh

1274
00:47:51,910 --> 00:47:50,160
about yuri gela and the fact that he was

1275
00:47:53,510 --> 00:47:51,920
right up close to yuri geller and yuri

1276
00:47:55,670 --> 00:47:53,520
geller bender spoon and there's no way

1277
00:47:59,990 --> 00:47:55,680
he could have done that

1278
00:48:01,910 --> 00:48:00,000
whereupon i bent a spoon on the tv show

1279
00:48:04,069 --> 00:48:01,920
and i could see poor old simon

1280
00:48:06,230 --> 00:48:04,079
turnbull's uh

1281
00:48:07,349 --> 00:48:06,240
the gears in his brain seize up a little

1282
00:48:09,589 --> 00:48:07,359
bit

1283
00:48:11,510 --> 00:48:09,599
after the show i took him aside and i

1284
00:48:14,630 --> 00:48:11,520
told him point blank

1285
00:48:16,230 --> 00:48:14,640
that uh he should know how the trick is

1286
00:48:17,910 --> 00:48:16,240
done

1287
00:48:19,349 --> 00:48:17,920
he of all people should know how the

1288
00:48:21,829 --> 00:48:19,359
trick is done

1289
00:48:23,670 --> 00:48:21,839
i showed him the trick and he looked at

1290
00:48:27,030 --> 00:48:23,680
me and said when you do it it's a trick

1291
00:48:30,870 --> 00:48:27,040
but when yuri geller did it it was real

1292
00:48:33,990 --> 00:48:30,880
what more could i have done and our next

1293
00:48:37,510 --> 00:48:34,000
item comes to us from

1294
00:48:41,030 --> 00:48:37,520
truth magazine published on the 12th of

1295
00:48:44,150 --> 00:48:41,040
june 1949 and this

1296
00:48:47,349 --> 00:48:44,160
is in sydney unpopular

1297
00:48:50,390 --> 00:48:47,359
poltergeist with the

1298
00:48:53,910 --> 00:48:50,400
accompanying photograph of a man

1299
00:48:54,470 --> 00:48:53,920
sort of squatting down bent over with a

1300
00:48:57,430 --> 00:48:54,480
large

1301
00:48:57,829 --> 00:48:57,440
plank in his hand as if he's about to

1302
00:49:00,950 --> 00:48:57,839
hit

1303
00:49:03,030 --> 00:49:00,960
something a mort dale poltergeist has

1304
00:49:05,349 --> 00:49:03,040
terrified mr norman greene

1305
00:49:06,549 --> 00:49:05,359
of villages street mortdale and the rest

1306
00:49:09,030 --> 00:49:06,559
of his family by

1307
00:49:09,910 --> 00:49:09,040
its wrappings and knockings all over the

1308
00:49:12,549 --> 00:49:09,920
premises

1309
00:49:14,309 --> 00:49:12,559
since friday night investigations have

1310
00:49:16,870 --> 00:49:14,319
failed to show the cause of the

1311
00:49:17,589 --> 00:49:16,880
noises which have been heard by

1312
00:49:20,790 --> 00:49:17,599
neighbours

1313
00:49:24,069 --> 00:49:20,800
living some distance away the greenhouse

1314
00:49:27,030 --> 00:49:24,079
is the only one in the street affected

1315
00:49:27,829 --> 00:49:27,040
here mr green's brother-in-law mr alf

1316
00:49:31,510 --> 00:49:27,839
berryman

1317
00:49:34,549 --> 00:49:31,520
of homer street earl wood was snapped

1318
00:49:37,190 --> 00:49:34,559
by truth last night as he appeared

1319
00:49:37,990 --> 00:49:37,200
under the mortdale house armed with a

1320
00:49:41,109 --> 00:49:38,000
paling

1321
00:49:44,150 --> 00:49:41,119
mr berryman promises the ghost

1322
00:49:46,069 --> 00:49:44,160
a warm reception i know home street or

1323
00:49:48,150 --> 00:49:46,079
wood it's not terribly far from where i

1324
00:49:50,549 --> 00:49:48,160
am now

1325
00:49:51,990 --> 00:49:50,559
and now from the herald published in

1326
00:49:55,670 --> 00:49:52,000
melbourne victoria

1327
00:49:59,109 --> 00:49:55,680
monday the 17th of july 1950

1328
00:50:02,390 --> 00:49:59,119
poltergeist drives family from flat

1329
00:50:05,349 --> 00:50:02,400
herald special service london

1330
00:50:05,910 --> 00:50:05,359
sunday the sergeant family husband

1331
00:50:08,630 --> 00:50:05,920
victor

1332
00:50:10,630 --> 00:50:08,640
wife betty and baby christopher is

1333
00:50:12,710 --> 00:50:10,640
living in one small room with

1334
00:50:13,670 --> 00:50:12,720
scarcely enough space to move between

1335
00:50:16,150 --> 00:50:13,680
beds

1336
00:50:17,030 --> 00:50:16,160
because a vindictive poltergeist has

1337
00:50:20,230 --> 00:50:17,040
driven them

1338
00:50:23,750 --> 00:50:20,240
from their modern self-contained flat

1339
00:50:25,430 --> 00:50:23,760
at epsom mr sergeant said

1340
00:50:26,870 --> 00:50:25,440
i did not believe in that sort of thing

1341
00:50:29,349 --> 00:50:26,880
before but i

1342
00:50:31,109 --> 00:50:29,359
admit i was scared to death during the

1343
00:50:33,349 --> 00:50:31,119
last few days in the flat

1344
00:50:35,190 --> 00:50:33,359
mrs sergeant explained something

1345
00:50:36,230 --> 00:50:35,200
happened on most nights the poltergeist

1346
00:50:39,190 --> 00:50:36,240
seemed to be

1347
00:50:40,390 --> 00:50:39,200
most active and vindictive between 11 pm

1348
00:50:43,190 --> 00:50:40,400
and 1am

1349
00:50:44,150 --> 00:50:43,200
it was active during the day too but not

1350
00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:44,160
dangerous

1351
00:50:47,670 --> 00:50:46,480
one night i felt something trying to

1352
00:50:50,069 --> 00:50:47,680
strangle me

1353
00:50:50,710 --> 00:50:50,079
we went out of the bedroom into the

1354
00:50:52,710 --> 00:50:50,720
lounge

1355
00:50:53,750 --> 00:50:52,720
to get away from it and tried to sleep

1356
00:50:55,910 --> 00:50:53,760
on the couch

1357
00:50:58,069 --> 00:50:55,920
in a few minutes it tried to choke me

1358
00:50:59,670 --> 00:50:58,079
again as we went downstairs to tell

1359
00:51:02,630 --> 00:50:59,680
people in the flat below

1360
00:51:03,109 --> 00:51:02,640
it gave me a push in the back another

1361
00:51:05,670 --> 00:51:03,119
night

1362
00:51:07,670 --> 00:51:05,680
i was in bed when a lamp on a small

1363
00:51:10,870 --> 00:51:07,680
table beside me came across

1364
00:51:14,549 --> 00:51:10,880
and hit me in the head mr sergeant said

1365
00:51:15,030 --> 00:51:14,559
the lamp rose from the table struck my

1366
00:51:18,230 --> 00:51:15,040
wife

1367
00:51:21,190 --> 00:51:18,240
passed over her bed and landed on mine

1368
00:51:21,990 --> 00:51:21,200
i was thoroughly shaken one night betty

1369
00:51:24,710 --> 00:51:22,000
was sitting up

1370
00:51:25,910 --> 00:51:24,720
in bed while something began pulling at

1371
00:51:28,309 --> 00:51:25,920
her shoulders

1372
00:51:29,349 --> 00:51:28,319
it drained her towards the window it

1373
00:51:33,109 --> 00:51:29,359
lifted her body

1374
00:51:35,910 --> 00:51:33,119
so that only her legs and thighs

1375
00:51:36,309 --> 00:51:35,920
were touching the bed she cried for help

1376
00:51:39,829 --> 00:51:36,319
and i

1377
00:51:42,549 --> 00:51:39,839
grabbed her legs but whatever it was

1378
00:51:43,190 --> 00:51:42,559
had great strength at first i could not

1379
00:51:46,309 --> 00:51:43,200
held

1380
00:51:47,589 --> 00:51:46,319
betty i felt something going towards the

1381
00:51:49,510 --> 00:51:47,599
window too

1382
00:51:52,150 --> 00:51:49,520
then quite suddenly it seemed to lose

1383
00:51:56,630 --> 00:51:52,160
its power and bet he fell

1384
00:51:58,870 --> 00:51:56,640
now we come to oh 1926

1385
00:51:59,750 --> 00:51:58,880
western mail from perth western

1386
00:52:02,950 --> 00:51:59,760
australia

1387
00:52:05,270 --> 00:52:02,960
thursday the 18th of november

1388
00:52:07,829 --> 00:52:05,280
and a story relating to the poltergeist

1389
00:52:10,790 --> 00:52:07,839
girl we read before

1390
00:52:12,950 --> 00:52:10,800
this is interesting it says money flies

1391
00:52:16,150 --> 00:52:12,960
poltergeist girl mystery

1392
00:52:19,589 --> 00:52:16,160
coins flew about the seance room in a

1393
00:52:21,670 --> 00:52:19,599
disconcerting way recently when a

1394
00:52:22,950 --> 00:52:21,680
sitting was held at the national

1395
00:52:25,270 --> 00:52:22,960
laboratory of

1396
00:52:25,990 --> 00:52:25,280
psychical research south kensington

1397
00:52:28,470 --> 00:52:26,000
england

1398
00:52:29,910 --> 00:52:28,480
where eleanor zaghin the romanian

1399
00:52:33,030 --> 00:52:29,920
poltergeist girl

1400
00:52:36,309 --> 00:52:33,040
reports the london daily news

1401
00:52:39,190 --> 00:52:36,319
both her hands were held and the 60 watt

1402
00:52:40,470 --> 00:52:39,200
red light made observations of any

1403
00:52:43,910 --> 00:52:40,480
movement by her

1404
00:52:45,990 --> 00:52:43,920
or any of the sitters quite easy

1405
00:52:48,150 --> 00:52:46,000
marked coins which had been placed in

1406
00:52:51,270 --> 00:52:48,160
various parts of the room flew about

1407
00:52:53,270 --> 00:52:51,280
without any apparent cause one coin

1408
00:52:56,710 --> 00:52:53,280
which had been placed on a shelf some

1409
00:53:00,069 --> 00:52:56,720
yards from anyone in the room suddenly

1410
00:53:02,790 --> 00:53:00,079
flew across to the gramophone

1411
00:53:04,309 --> 00:53:02,800
there was no possibility said mr harry

1412
00:53:05,430 --> 00:53:04,319
price honorary director of the

1413
00:53:07,190 --> 00:53:05,440
laboratory

1414
00:53:08,630 --> 00:53:07,200
of anyone in the room having touched the

1415
00:53:10,710 --> 00:53:08,640
coin

1416
00:53:12,390 --> 00:53:10,720
i think a little bit of talcum powder

1417
00:53:14,630 --> 00:53:12,400
here and there would have

1418
00:53:15,750 --> 00:53:14,640
been of great use to the investigators

1419
00:53:18,870 --> 00:53:15,760
at the time

1420
00:53:21,670 --> 00:53:18,880
and now we come to the year 1953 on

1421
00:53:22,470 --> 00:53:21,680
friday the 15th of may published in the

1422
00:53:26,230 --> 00:53:22,480
blackwood

1423
00:53:28,150 --> 00:53:26,240
times which is a

1424
00:53:29,829 --> 00:53:28,160
or was a newspaper from western

1425
00:53:33,510 --> 00:53:29,839
australia

1426
00:53:35,750 --> 00:53:33,520
what is a poltergeist what exactly

1427
00:53:37,109 --> 00:53:35,760
is a poltergeist this question will be

1428
00:53:40,470 --> 00:53:37,119
on a number of lips

1429
00:53:43,190 --> 00:53:40,480
in the district in the next few weeks

1430
00:53:44,870 --> 00:53:43,200
and although the subject is a very

1431
00:53:47,510 --> 00:53:44,880
intangible one

1432
00:53:48,390 --> 00:53:47,520
a few words about these troublesome

1433
00:53:51,510 --> 00:53:48,400
oddities

1434
00:53:52,549 --> 00:53:51,520
should make for keener appreciation of

1435
00:53:55,750 --> 00:53:52,559
the play

1436
00:53:58,549 --> 00:53:55,760
to be presented by bridgetown

1437
00:53:59,670 --> 00:53:58,559
repertory club the name is of german

1438
00:54:02,390 --> 00:53:59,680
derivation

1439
00:54:03,270 --> 00:54:02,400
and means literally noisy ghost from

1440
00:54:05,430 --> 00:54:03,280
polter

1441
00:54:06,549 --> 00:54:05,440
which is perhaps best described in

1442
00:54:09,670 --> 00:54:06,559
english as

1443
00:54:11,910 --> 00:54:09,680
shindi or din and gust

1444
00:54:13,910 --> 00:54:11,920
and the appellation fits perfectly the

1445
00:54:14,790 --> 00:54:13,920
most conspicuous trait of the

1446
00:54:17,270 --> 00:54:14,800
poltergeist

1447
00:54:18,390 --> 00:54:17,280
being its ability to create unexpected

1448
00:54:20,390 --> 00:54:18,400
noises

1449
00:54:22,630 --> 00:54:20,400
there are numerous and well supported

1450
00:54:25,589 --> 00:54:22,640
stories about poltergeists

1451
00:54:26,309 --> 00:54:25,599
and fresh occurrences are reported at

1452
00:54:30,230 --> 00:54:26,319
frequent

1453
00:54:34,230 --> 00:54:30,240
intervals throughout the world skeptics

1454
00:54:36,549 --> 00:54:34,240
will smile condescendingly

1455
00:54:39,510 --> 00:54:36,559
but it is much easier to treat such

1456
00:54:43,190 --> 00:54:39,520
apparitions with contempt and amusement

1457
00:54:45,829 --> 00:54:43,200
from the distance of time and space

1458
00:54:46,950 --> 00:54:45,839
and one only has to contemplate a

1459
00:54:49,589 --> 00:54:46,960
possible

1460
00:54:50,470 --> 00:54:49,599
visitation to gain some idea of the

1461
00:54:53,510 --> 00:54:50,480
grotesque

1462
00:54:56,630 --> 00:54:53,520
and amusing situations which could be

1463
00:55:00,069 --> 00:54:56,640
caused in a quiet english

1464
00:55:03,109 --> 00:55:00,079
vicarage when unwillingly

1465
00:55:06,390 --> 00:55:03,119
entertaining one of these phenomena

1466
00:55:08,710 --> 00:55:06,400
such is the theme of the play which

1467
00:55:09,990 --> 00:55:08,720
bridgetown repertory club has entered

1468
00:55:12,870 --> 00:55:10,000
for the annual

1469
00:55:14,069 --> 00:55:12,880
festival in competition with other clubs

1470
00:55:16,390 --> 00:55:14,079
throughout the state

1471
00:55:18,069 --> 00:55:16,400
and officials of the club are hoping

1472
00:55:21,270 --> 00:55:18,079
that the production

1473
00:55:24,309 --> 00:55:21,280
will do even better than in

1474
00:55:26,950 --> 00:55:24,319
the jubilee year when bridgetown's

1475
00:55:28,230 --> 00:55:26,960
saloon bar which was placed third among

1476
00:55:30,069 --> 00:55:28,240
the country entries

1477
00:55:31,349 --> 00:55:30,079
the first and second being eventually

1478
00:55:34,630 --> 00:55:31,359
winner and runner-up

1479
00:55:37,630 --> 00:55:34,640
for the state and we end with something

1480
00:55:44,710 --> 00:55:39,829
1949 saturday the

1481
00:55:47,910 --> 00:55:44,720
12th of february sydney morning herald

1482
00:55:49,030 --> 00:55:47,920
beware of the poltergeist by hugh

1483
00:55:51,510 --> 00:55:49,040
lemming

1484
00:55:53,270 --> 00:55:51,520
the milking machine mystery at tarkata

1485
00:55:56,950 --> 00:55:53,280
has yet to be solved

1486
00:55:59,510 --> 00:55:56,960
possibly that the cause of the alarming

1487
00:56:02,870 --> 00:55:59,520
flight of the machine's plates which

1488
00:56:05,829 --> 00:56:02,880
baffled farmers and engineers was of

1489
00:56:07,430 --> 00:56:05,839
poltergeist origin deserves wider

1490
00:56:10,150 --> 00:56:07,440
investigation

1491
00:56:13,030 --> 00:56:10,160
for poltergeist activity is not to be

1492
00:56:16,549 --> 00:56:13,040
dismissed with incredulous laughter or

1493
00:56:19,030 --> 00:56:16,559
ironical references to gremlins

1494
00:56:21,670 --> 00:56:19,040
it will be recalled that heavy metal

1495
00:56:23,750 --> 00:56:21,680
plates were cast off the milking machine

1496
00:56:27,349 --> 00:56:23,760
by an unknown force

1497
00:56:28,950 --> 00:56:27,359
and at terrific velocity the machine was

1498
00:56:31,910 --> 00:56:28,960
examined by engineers who

1499
00:56:33,750 --> 00:56:31,920
could offer no explanation meanwhile the

1500
00:56:35,990 --> 00:56:33,760
power of poltergeists is being

1501
00:56:37,109 --> 00:56:36,000
investigated by the psychical research

1502
00:56:39,910 --> 00:56:37,119
society

1503
00:56:41,270 --> 00:56:39,920
in connection with similar inexplicable

1504
00:56:44,150 --> 00:56:41,280
happenings in britain

1505
00:56:45,670 --> 00:56:44,160
poltergeist is a german word translating

1506
00:56:48,630 --> 00:56:45,680
literally into

1507
00:56:49,510 --> 00:56:48,640
bracketing spirits the encyclopedia

1508
00:56:51,990 --> 00:56:49,520
britannica

1509
00:56:54,950 --> 00:56:52,000
states that poltergeist phenomenon have

1510
00:56:57,750 --> 00:56:54,960
been noted for hundreds of years notably

1511
00:56:58,950 --> 00:56:57,760
in the hauntings recorded by the great

1512
00:57:02,069 --> 00:56:58,960
evangelist

1513
00:57:06,069 --> 00:57:02,079
john wesley in his house at

1514
00:57:07,349 --> 00:57:06,079
epsworth in 1770. dr harry price

1515
00:57:10,390 --> 00:57:07,359
investigator of the

1516
00:57:11,430 --> 00:57:10,400
strange phenomenon for the psychical

1517
00:57:14,950 --> 00:57:11,440
research

1518
00:57:16,069 --> 00:57:14,960
society probes the poltergeist problem

1519
00:57:19,510 --> 00:57:16,079
in his book

1520
00:57:21,829 --> 00:57:19,520
the end of borley rectory published

1521
00:57:24,069 --> 00:57:21,839
last year he records from his own

1522
00:57:25,109 --> 00:57:24,079
observations that the haunted bally

1523
00:57:28,150 --> 00:57:25,119
rectory

1524
00:57:31,670 --> 00:57:28,160
and from records scrupulously kept

1525
00:57:34,470 --> 00:57:31,680
by other skeptical observers that

1526
00:57:36,789 --> 00:57:34,480
at least 2 000 poltergeist phenomenon

1527
00:57:38,390 --> 00:57:36,799
were experienced in directory between

1528
00:57:41,670 --> 00:57:38,400
october 1930

1529
00:57:44,870 --> 00:57:41,680
and october 1935. phenomenon included

1530
00:57:48,309 --> 00:57:44,880
permeation of directory by the odor

1531
00:57:50,950 --> 00:57:48,319
of lavender when no lavender was used or

1532
00:57:53,030 --> 00:57:50,960
growing in the vicinity and by the smell

1533
00:57:54,630 --> 00:57:53,040
of cooking when no one was cooking in

1534
00:57:58,150 --> 00:57:54,640
the house

1535
00:58:01,190 --> 00:57:58,160
cotton reels placed on shelves flew

1536
00:58:03,750 --> 00:58:01,200
in the rooms brass candlesticks

1537
00:58:06,470 --> 00:58:03,760
jumped from tables to chairs kitchen

1538
00:58:09,589 --> 00:58:06,480
utensils dropped from their shelves

1539
00:58:12,789 --> 00:58:09,599
stones appeared under pillows

1540
00:58:16,710 --> 00:58:12,799
house bells not electrically operated

1541
00:58:19,430 --> 00:58:16,720
rang madly doors heavily bolted and

1542
00:58:20,150 --> 00:58:19,440
barred swung open with a crash that

1543
00:58:23,589 --> 00:58:20,160
shook

1544
00:58:27,270 --> 00:58:23,599
the windows plates smashed to bits

1545
00:58:29,829 --> 00:58:27,280
on the floor and a few seconds later

1546
00:58:30,950 --> 00:58:29,839
were found undamaged again in the

1547
00:58:34,390 --> 00:58:30,960
cupboards

1548
00:58:36,870 --> 00:58:34,400
all this happened without human agency

1549
00:58:37,829 --> 00:58:36,880
these phenomena for which scientists

1550
00:58:41,030 --> 00:58:37,839
have so

1551
00:58:43,270 --> 00:58:41,040
far failed to find an explanation

1552
00:58:44,150 --> 00:58:43,280
were carefully observed by many

1553
00:58:46,950 --> 00:58:44,160
investigators

1554
00:58:47,670 --> 00:58:46,960
who laid a variety of traps to catch the

1555
00:58:51,589 --> 00:58:47,680
things

1556
00:58:54,789 --> 00:58:51,599
responsible if they should prove to be

1557
00:58:56,150 --> 00:58:54,799
prompted by human mischievousness or

1558
00:58:58,390 --> 00:58:56,160
malice

1559
00:58:59,589 --> 00:58:58,400
cotton threads were strung across the

1560
00:59:02,710 --> 00:58:59,599
rooms heavy

1561
00:59:04,230 --> 00:59:02,720
seals placed on doors automatic cameras

1562
00:59:07,349 --> 00:59:04,240
hidden in cupboards and

1563
00:59:10,309 --> 00:59:07,359
thermometers secreted about directory to

1564
00:59:12,990 --> 00:59:10,319
register the sudden drops in temperature

1565
00:59:14,390 --> 00:59:13,000
which usually accompany poltergeist

1566
00:59:17,430 --> 00:59:14,400
manifestations

1567
00:59:20,309 --> 00:59:17,440
the threads were unbroken the seals

1568
00:59:22,390 --> 00:59:20,319
untouched the floor again became

1569
00:59:23,670 --> 00:59:22,400
littered with kitchen utensils flung

1570
00:59:26,470 --> 00:59:23,680
apparently

1571
00:59:27,750 --> 00:59:26,480
through locked and sealed doors by some

1572
00:59:30,230 --> 00:59:27,760
invisible agency

1573
00:59:32,230 --> 00:59:30,240
the thermometers revealed fantastic

1574
00:59:35,510 --> 00:59:32,240
drops in temperature

1575
00:59:38,710 --> 00:59:35,520
at these times and the cameras

1576
00:59:41,910 --> 00:59:38,720
revealed house bricks and candlesticks

1577
00:59:44,309 --> 00:59:41,920
apparently hovering in mid air

1578
00:59:46,549 --> 00:59:44,319
in summing up the evidence of the bali

1579
00:59:49,829 --> 00:59:46,559
rectory poltergeist activity

1580
00:59:51,750 --> 00:59:49,839
sir ernest jelf senior master of the

1581
00:59:54,510 --> 00:59:51,760
supreme court

1582
00:59:56,069 --> 00:59:54,520
wrote in the london law times in august

1583
00:59:58,230 --> 00:59:56,079
1941

1584
01:00:01,190 --> 00:59:58,240
these occurrences stand on a different

1585
01:00:04,470 --> 01:00:01,200
level from the ordinary ghost story

1586
01:00:07,750 --> 01:00:04,480
intro matches the poltergeist is a

1587
01:00:10,230 --> 01:00:07,760
hypothesis to account for a force

1588
01:00:10,950 --> 01:00:10,240
which can produce actual physical and

1589
01:00:13,910 --> 01:00:10,960
chemical

1590
01:00:15,190 --> 01:00:13,920
changes in matter very strong case has

1591
01:00:18,309 --> 01:00:15,200
been put forward by

1592
01:00:21,150 --> 01:00:18,319
reputable witnesses and we are

1593
01:00:22,789 --> 01:00:21,160
at a loss to understand what

1594
01:00:25,990 --> 01:00:22,799
cross-examination

1595
01:00:27,430 --> 01:00:26,000
could shake it as boswell said to dr

1596
01:00:30,230 --> 01:00:27,440
johnson

1597
01:00:31,670 --> 01:00:30,240
all reason is against it all experience

1598
01:00:33,829 --> 01:00:31,680
is for it

1599
01:00:35,589 --> 01:00:33,839
similar poltergeist manifestations have

1600
01:00:37,430 --> 01:00:35,599
been reported from many places in

1601
01:00:40,390 --> 01:00:37,440
britain and other countries

1602
01:00:41,589 --> 01:00:40,400
notable cases were those of the leper

1603
01:00:44,309 --> 01:00:41,599
bell at warren house

1604
01:00:46,309 --> 01:00:44,319
thetford and at cider stone hall in

1605
01:00:49,270 --> 01:00:46,319
berkshire

1606
01:00:51,430 --> 01:00:49,280
at warren hall an old leper bell a

1607
01:00:52,230 --> 01:00:51,440
handbell carried by lepers in the middle

1608
01:00:55,990 --> 01:00:52,240
ages

1609
01:00:59,270 --> 01:00:56,000
would ring at intervals it had been

1610
01:01:01,430 --> 01:00:59,280
seen detaching itself from the wall hook

1611
01:01:02,710 --> 01:01:01,440
without human aid then moving through

1612
01:01:05,910 --> 01:01:02,720
the air to a table

1613
01:01:08,549 --> 01:01:05,920
bringing violently on route as

1614
01:01:09,270 --> 01:01:08,559
if being shaken by the hand no one could

1615
01:01:12,309 --> 01:01:09,280
see

1616
01:01:15,030 --> 01:01:12,319
at sea stone hall the phenomena

1617
01:01:15,990 --> 01:01:15,040
which occurred at bali rectory was

1618
01:01:19,190 --> 01:01:16,000
repeated

1619
01:01:21,589 --> 01:01:19,200
with some curious additions kitchen

1620
01:01:25,109 --> 01:01:21,599
utensils were flung about the rooms

1621
01:01:27,829 --> 01:01:25,119
a water pump handle moved up and down

1622
01:01:29,190 --> 01:01:27,839
and the rusted wheels of a mill began to

1623
01:01:33,190 --> 01:01:29,200
turn without power

1624
01:01:36,789 --> 01:01:33,200
at st po a small town in northern france

1625
01:01:39,670 --> 01:01:36,799
which many diggers of the first aif

1626
01:01:41,910 --> 01:01:39,680
may recall there was a well

1627
01:01:44,710 --> 01:01:41,920
authenticated case of poltergeist

1628
01:01:48,069 --> 01:01:44,720
activity reported two years ago

1629
01:01:49,589 --> 01:01:48,079
in this instance a massive flywheel of a

1630
01:01:52,390 --> 01:01:49,599
steam engine plow

1631
01:01:53,589 --> 01:01:52,400
began to revolve at enormous speed where

1632
01:01:56,549 --> 01:01:53,599
there was no

1633
01:01:57,190 --> 01:01:56,559
operative power it was seen by dozens of

1634
01:02:00,870 --> 01:01:57,200
persons

1635
01:02:04,390 --> 01:02:00,880
including the local granomir it was

1636
01:02:06,710 --> 01:02:04,400
repeated thrice on the last occasion

1637
01:02:07,750 --> 01:02:06,720
the wheel tore itself from the strong

1638
01:02:10,789 --> 01:02:07,760
shaft

1639
01:02:13,990 --> 01:02:10,799
and flew 300 meters

1640
01:02:17,270 --> 01:02:14,000
into the side of a barn police

1641
01:02:18,390 --> 01:02:17,280
have yet to arrest a poltergeist for

1642
01:02:21,510 --> 01:02:18,400
causing

1643
01:02:24,470 --> 01:02:21,520
a public nuisance when i was a reporter

1644
01:02:26,950 --> 01:02:24,480
on an english journal 20 years ago i and

1645
01:02:28,390 --> 01:02:26,960
other newspaper men witnessed uncanny

1646
01:02:32,390 --> 01:02:28,400
poltergeist phenomenon

1647
01:02:36,150 --> 01:02:32,400
in the kentish village of marden where

1648
01:02:37,190 --> 01:02:36,160
laundry irons kettles stirrups cutlery

1649
01:02:39,270 --> 01:02:37,200
and copper coins

1650
01:02:41,349 --> 01:02:39,280
moved from the shelves and tables

1651
01:02:44,309 --> 01:02:41,359
whenever an adolescent boy

1652
01:02:44,710 --> 01:02:44,319
entered the kitchen of the farmhouse the

1653
01:02:46,230 --> 01:02:44,720
boy

1654
01:02:47,829 --> 01:02:46,240
could offer no explanation for

1655
01:02:50,789 --> 01:02:47,839
attracting metal

1656
01:02:51,430 --> 01:02:50,799
though he could pick up pins using his

1657
01:02:54,549 --> 01:02:51,440
fingers

1658
01:02:57,670 --> 01:02:54,559
as a magnet i saw a heavy iron side of a

1659
01:02:58,150 --> 01:02:57,680
table move horizontally in the air and

1660
01:03:00,430 --> 01:02:58,160
crash

1661
01:03:01,589 --> 01:03:00,440
at the feet of the boy the

1662
01:03:04,470 --> 01:03:01,599
manifestations

1663
01:03:05,190 --> 01:03:04,480
weakened in a few hours as if the

1664
01:03:08,150 --> 01:03:05,200
strange

1665
01:03:10,230 --> 01:03:08,160
power was slowly ebbing two scientists

1666
01:03:11,670 --> 01:03:10,240
investigating the incidents were unable

1667
01:03:14,789 --> 01:03:11,680
to offer any solution

1668
01:03:17,109 --> 01:03:14,799
they pondered two conflicting theories

1669
01:03:17,910 --> 01:03:17,119
one suggested that the boy's body

1670
01:03:22,069 --> 01:03:17,920
contained

1671
01:03:25,109 --> 01:03:22,079
a greater element of animal magnetism

1672
01:03:27,430 --> 01:03:25,119
than is possessed by a normal person

1673
01:03:28,549 --> 01:03:27,440
and that this power became operative

1674
01:03:31,510 --> 01:03:28,559
under certain

1675
01:03:33,270 --> 01:03:31,520
climactic conditions the modern events

1676
01:03:35,589 --> 01:03:33,280
occurred at a time of recurrent

1677
01:03:38,069 --> 01:03:35,599
thunderstorms a second suggestion was

1678
01:03:39,109 --> 01:03:38,079
that normal elemental electricity from

1679
01:03:42,470 --> 01:03:39,119
the air

1680
01:03:45,510 --> 01:03:42,480
was by some means being used by the

1681
01:03:47,190 --> 01:03:45,520
boy as an earth wire

1682
01:03:48,710 --> 01:03:47,200
transforming the human body into a

1683
01:03:50,789 --> 01:03:48,720
powerful magnet

1684
01:03:52,870 --> 01:03:50,799
it was also suggested that the boy was

1685
01:03:55,029 --> 01:03:52,880
possessed by a devil

1686
01:03:56,470 --> 01:03:55,039
there was a case before the english

1687
01:04:00,230 --> 01:03:56,480
courts recently

1688
01:04:01,109 --> 01:04:00,240
in which a tenant applied for reduction

1689
01:04:03,670 --> 01:04:01,119
in the rent

1690
01:04:06,069 --> 01:04:03,680
of a house in which it was alleged

1691
01:04:09,589 --> 01:04:06,079
poltergeists were at war with

1692
01:04:12,710 --> 01:04:09,599
phantoms unhappily the tribunal was

1693
01:04:15,910 --> 01:04:12,720
unable to call ghosts or

1694
01:04:19,029 --> 01:04:15,920
geests as witnesses so the

1695
01:04:21,029 --> 01:04:19,039
cases preceded on other grounds most

1696
01:04:24,150 --> 01:04:21,039
poltergeist phenomena

1697
01:04:25,349 --> 01:04:24,160
is associated with the presence of a

1698
01:04:28,309 --> 01:04:25,359
human being

1699
01:04:28,309 --> 01:04:28,870
usually a young girl or boy often a

1700
01:04:33,109 --> 01:04:31,670
or in some other way abnormal physically

1701
01:04:35,510 --> 01:04:33,119
or mentally

1702
01:04:37,430 --> 01:04:35,520
telekinesis the moving of inanimate

1703
01:04:39,829 --> 01:04:37,440
objects by invisible means

1704
01:04:42,069 --> 01:04:39,839
is linked with poltergeist activity it

1705
01:04:45,109 --> 01:04:42,079
seems established from the evidence

1706
01:04:48,309 --> 01:04:45,119
available that some force psychic or

1707
01:04:49,430 --> 01:04:48,319
is yet unexplained scientifically at

1708
01:04:52,630 --> 01:04:49,440
times

1709
01:04:53,349 --> 01:04:52,640
intrudes upon the mundane world after

1710
01:04:56,390 --> 01:04:53,359
all

1711
01:04:59,750 --> 01:04:56,400
radio and radar 100 years ago

1712
01:05:02,069 --> 01:04:59,760
would have been as black a magic as

1713
01:05:08,150 --> 01:05:02,079
poltergeist phenomena

1714
01:05:10,150 --> 01:05:08,160
still is today

1715
01:05:12,630 --> 01:05:10,160
what interesting accounts of things

1716
01:05:16,549 --> 01:05:12,640
flying around rooms and so on

1717
01:05:18,789 --> 01:05:16,559
way back from 1949

1718
01:05:20,069 --> 01:05:18,799
always interesting to tiptoe through the

1719
01:05:22,789 --> 01:05:20,079
pages of

1720
01:05:24,789 --> 01:05:22,799
trove in this case we were looking the

1721
01:05:27,270 --> 01:05:24,799
last one was the sydney morning herald

1722
01:05:30,230 --> 01:05:27,280
which is still in publication of course

1723
01:05:33,470 --> 01:05:30,240
and you too can enjoy a couple of hours

1724
01:05:35,029 --> 01:05:33,480
looking through the pages of trove at

1725
01:05:37,430 --> 01:05:35,039
trove.nla.gov.edu

1726
01:05:59,029 --> 01:05:37,440
and like me you never know what you

1727
01:06:02,789 --> 01:06:00,549
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1728
01:06:05,109 --> 01:06:02,799
zone on next week's show

1729
01:06:06,710 --> 01:06:05,119
in the trove archive we're going to be

1730
01:06:08,549 --> 01:06:06,720
doing a bit of a uh

1731
01:06:10,390 --> 01:06:08,559
a variation in fact we'll be looking at

1732
01:06:11,510 --> 01:06:10,400
newspapers overseas from the united

1733
01:06:15,190 --> 01:06:11,520
states

1734
01:06:17,190 --> 01:06:15,200
talking about skeptics marking the

1735
01:06:18,630 --> 01:06:17,200
homework of psychics when it comes to

1736
01:06:21,190 --> 01:06:18,640
predictions and this is something i've

1737
01:06:23,670 --> 01:06:21,200
been doing with my team for a while now

1738
01:06:24,549 --> 01:06:23,680
well i looked around the archives around

1739
01:06:26,789 --> 01:06:24,559
the world that i

1740
01:06:28,789 --> 01:06:26,799
discovered the various other skeptical

1741
01:06:29,270 --> 01:06:28,799
groups namely the bay area skeptics were

1742
01:06:31,510 --> 01:06:29,280
doing

1743
01:06:33,430 --> 01:06:31,520
something like this a couple of decades

1744
01:06:35,750 --> 01:06:33,440
ago so we're going to be

1745
01:06:36,710 --> 01:06:35,760
looking at that also we have another

1746
01:06:39,510 --> 01:06:36,720
report with

1747
01:06:40,150 --> 01:06:39,520
our new reporter adrian hill from canada

1748
01:06:43,109 --> 01:06:40,160
another

1749
01:06:45,589 --> 01:06:43,119
report about numbers thank you to those

1750
01:06:47,910 --> 01:06:45,599
people who subscribe at skepticzone.tv

1751
01:06:50,230 --> 01:06:47,920
via patreon or paypal

1752
01:06:51,510 --> 01:06:50,240
and if you enjoy the show each week if

1753
01:06:54,710 --> 01:06:51,520
you get something out of it

1754
01:06:57,109 --> 01:06:54,720
entertainment at least education um

1755
01:06:59,270 --> 01:06:57,119
maybe a few laughs along the way then

1756
01:07:00,870 --> 01:06:59,280
please consider being a patreon

1757
01:07:02,549 --> 01:07:00,880
and you can do that for as little as

1758
01:07:04,549 --> 01:07:02,559
well as a very little

1759
01:07:06,950 --> 01:07:04,559
each month a dollar i think or five

1760
01:07:07,190 --> 01:07:06,960
dollars hardly anything at all but it

1761
01:07:11,190 --> 01:07:07,200
all

1762
01:07:13,750 --> 01:07:11,200
zone can keep going

1763
01:07:15,349 --> 01:07:13,760
visit skepticzone.tv scroll to the

1764
01:07:16,390 --> 01:07:15,359
bottom of the page and you can also

1765
01:07:19,990 --> 01:07:16,400
check out

1766
01:07:22,710 --> 01:07:20,000
my origami digital downloads

1767
01:07:24,470 --> 01:07:22,720
photography of origami and if you buy

1768
01:07:24,870 --> 01:07:24,480
one of those that money also goes to

1769
01:07:27,670 --> 01:07:24,880
help

1770
01:07:29,829 --> 01:07:27,680
the skeptic zone and just before i go a

1771
01:07:31,910 --> 01:07:29,839
big happy birthday to jim wilshere the

1772
01:07:33,270 --> 01:07:31,920
voiceover man for the skeptic zone right

1773
01:07:33,910 --> 01:07:33,280
at the beginning of the episode you hear

1774
01:07:36,150 --> 01:07:33,920
his voice

1775
01:07:37,430 --> 01:07:36,160
welcoming you to the show before you

1776
01:07:40,390 --> 01:07:37,440
hear me

1777
01:07:41,109 --> 01:07:40,400
big happy birthday to my dear friend jim

1778
01:07:44,390 --> 01:07:41,119
um

1779
01:07:45,270 --> 01:07:44,400
i hope i can visit you well sometime

1780
01:07:48,230 --> 01:07:45,280
this year

1781
01:07:48,789 --> 01:07:48,240
and a happy birthday to our friend lara

1782
01:07:51,349 --> 01:07:48,799
benham

1783
01:07:52,150 --> 01:07:51,359
who is uh on the committee of the

1784
01:07:53,910 --> 01:07:52,160
skeptics and

1785
01:07:56,470 --> 01:07:53,920
who you hear on the show from time to

1786
01:07:58,309 --> 01:07:56,480
time happy birthday to you both

1787
01:07:59,670 --> 01:07:58,319
but for this week this is richard

1788
01:08:05,430 --> 01:07:59,680
saunders signing off

1789
01:08:08,630 --> 01:08:07,190
you've been listening to the skeptic

1790
01:08:11,870 --> 01:08:08,640
zone podcast

1791
01:08:13,190 --> 01:08:11,880
please visit our website at

1792
01:08:16,309 --> 01:08:13,200
www.skepticzone.tv

1793
01:08:18,309 --> 01:08:16,319
for show notes contacts and to access

1794
01:08:21,829 --> 01:08:18,319
the back catalog of episodes

1795
01:08:24,309 --> 01:08:21,839
going back to 2008. you can follow the

1796
01:08:27,349 --> 01:08:24,319
skepticzone podcast on twitter at

1797
01:08:30,870 --> 01:08:27,359
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1798
01:08:32,309 --> 01:08:30,880
or leave a review on itunes you can also

1799
01:08:35,510 --> 01:08:32,319
support the skeptic zone

1800
01:08:36,229 --> 01:08:35,520
via patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

1801
01:08:39,189 --> 01:08:36,239
podcast

1802
01:08:40,950 --> 01:08:39,199
is an independent production the views

1803
01:08:41,349 --> 01:08:40,960
and opinions expressed on the skeptic

1804
01:08:43,349 --> 01:08:41,359
zone

1805
01:08:45,269 --> 01:08:43,359
are not necessarily those of australian